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Conway · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 10:03 am Post subject: High Level Pr's

I keep thinking about the 100 WR and the potential for it being bettered ... Doing so I have been thinking about what others have done after WR performances as well as national record level PRs ... And it is interesting as it seems to be rare for individuals to approach that level again ... And not only in the 100, but the 200 & 400 as well ... For example:

100

9.78 - Montgomery - yet to be seen
9.79 - Greene - 9.80, 9.82, both championship wins, multiple sub 9.90's, pleathora sub 10's
9.84 - Bailey - 9.91 in 2 losing efforts to Greene in World championship semi and final .. No other sub 10's
9.84 - Surin - No other sub 10's
9.85 - Burrell - No other sub 10's (10.04)
9.86 - Lewis - No other sub 10's (10.02)
9.86 - Boldon - 3 more 9.86's, other sub 9.90s and sub 10's
9.86 - Fredericks - 9.89, several sub 10's
9.87 - Thompson - 9.97
9.87 - Christie - No other sub 10's

200

19.32 - MJ - 19.71a/19.89, No other sub 19.90s
19.68 - Fredericks - 19.81 2 other sub 19.90
19.72 - Mennea - No other sub 20's
19.73 - Marsh - No other sub 20's (20.04)
19.75 - Lewis - 19.79 in losing effort, several sub 20's
19.75 - Delaoch - No other sub 20's

400

43.18 - MJ - 43.68, 43.84, 43.92, No other sub 44's
43.29 - Reynolds - 43.91, No other sub 44's
43.50 - Watts - 43.83, No other sub 44's
No one else under 44 has ever repeated !!! Steve Lewis came closest at 44.21 .....

For whatever reason, it seems that running at what I will call "near ceiling" levels drains the body in a totally different way ... Many have suffered injuries and have not been able to recover ... And those that didn't have the injuries just couldn't get back to that level ...

Greene has been the rarest of the rare ... Going back repeatedly to the "well" ... Even MJ dubbed "Superman" couldn't go back ...

So tough road ahead for Montgomery ... And it seems what he is going ot have to fight the most is staying injury free ... Although as Justin said in another thread I think he had his perfect race already !!

Conway

Dan · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 4:12 pm Post subject:

There's probably a heavy psychological factor there in addition to the physical one. These are performance levels being looked at that are in the "best ever" category, so getting to that level means racing against history, not just yourself, and once there, there isn't nearly the same carrot dangling at the end of the stick for motivation... Making history once is tough enough. There's a reason why history isn't made repeatedly. Wink

Dan

Conway · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 7:24 pm Post subject:

Hmmm ... I would think the opposite ... The breaking of a barrier ...The realization that something is possible .. I would think that the difference would be if one truly believed they could do it from the beginning or if the reaching of the barrier was by accident ... For example Bailey's record just happened ... Mo was looking for the record ...

But I would hope that anyone at those levels would have a fairly strong mental make up ... Of course I say that with Montgomery staring me in the face ...

I think more of it is physical ... Sprinting is an extremely violent activity ... And places an extreme strain on an individual ... That is why injury is so common for sprinters ... One is always on the edge between supreme success and disaster ...

At those levels one is very very close to disaster ... And apparenatly it finds most ... Just a theory ... Wink

Conway

Dan · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 7:42 pm Post subject:

On the other hand... Of those athletes you listed above, I don't see many who fell short of PR/WR levels as a result of injury. Most just failed to run at that level again, which seems more psychological to me.

Most people run best (literally and figuratively) when they are chasing. As soon as they're out in front, they're motivated primarily by fear of losing, which generally isn't a very good motivator, all things considered. If someone sets a PR, they get the taste of success and want more -- more being inching closer to those ahead of them. If that PR also happens to be a world record, then there's nothing [known] to keep striving for, only the hope of distancing themselves from the pursuit pack. That is fear. Fear leads to retirement, bad decisions, and racing tight...

Dan

Conway · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 8:04 pm Post subject:

OK ... Then why not drop simplsy drop back to previous levels of success ??? Why almost total regression in most cases ??? While the mind is exstremely strong ... It would seem that with the body at that level, one should almost run "close" to an achieved level almost by accident ... Especially with the access to high level events to compete in ...

And the sprints are not like middle and long distances ... There is little time during competition to carry out the mental gymnastics necessary to talk oneself out of the race ...

Conway

Dan · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 8:24 pm Post subject:

Dan · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 8:27 pm Post subject:

Conway · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 8:47 pm Post subject:

Conway · Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2002 8:06 am Post subject:

I think that with distance running there are so many different variables that no matter what combination you put together, there is always another combination that may produce something better !!!! And the room for error is so large ...

Sprinting has so little room for error that to constantly recreate perfection is nedar impossible ...

Conway

Dan · Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2002 8:14 am Post subject:

I agree for the most part, although I think percentages are as important a way of looking at it as perfection. The longer the race, the bigger percentage "window" there is to work with in terms of improvements. You can't make up 3 seconds with a strong kick in the 100m to overcome a slow middle stretch. The margin of error just isn't there due to the shortness of the race. All there is to work with is hundreths of a second, and those are very unforgiving of small errors...

Dan

Conway · Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2002 8:45 am Post subject:

So given the small margin of error in the sprints ... Let's get back to the psychological aspect ... Where is the time allotted for the sprinter to talk himself out of running to his potential ????

Conway

Dan · Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2002 8:49 am Post subject:

Like I said, I don't think there's an overly conscious aspect to it. Most of the damage is done before and after the race without realizing it...

Dan

Distance_Guru · Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:13 am Post subject:

I think that's what's been said about distance running (and to a lesser extent mid-distance) PR's is pretty much true. There are so many ways to make a mistake and to improve because of the extended duration of the races, that the slightest improvement in focus, weather conditions, compotition, ect. Will show up markedly in a 10,000 meter race as opposed to a 100 meter race (since the former is 100x as long as the later, that at least makes sence to me). I'm not sure about the physical damage being more for a 100 runner as opposed to say a 10,000 runner since you don't have to continued pounding in the 100 that you have in 10k. I personally think that the strain of running a top level race in either event is probably about equal after about a week or so. Although I think it shows up less in the short term in the sprints, since it isn't incredibly uncommon to see an athlete run a PR, or maybe even WR in prelims and then go on to better that the very next day (or even later in the same day) in the finals. Where as it is extremely rare to see a distance runner run two WR or PR type races on back to back days on the track.
_________________
Time is the fire in which we burn

Dan · Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:51 am Post subject:

Dan · Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:42 am Post subject:

One other thought regarding Conway's initial post: Maurice has stayed at pretty darn close to his WR level for the subsequent 3 years, which I think removes him for all intents and purposes from what I presume is the group being questioned -- those who have achieved that highest of levels and failed to either remain there or face the new challengers (i.e. Montgomery).

Dan

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