Run-Down Forums

[ghyde]

Where can I find information on converting times at altitude to sealevel? I live in Denver and would like to get an idea of what my times here would equate to at sealevel.

[Dan]

http://desert.jsd.claremont.edu/~newt/track/

Not set up for all events, though...

Dan

[Distance_Guru]

Here are the conversions the NCAA uses for converting from Altitude to sea level. I'm not sure how acurate they are going from altitude down to sea level, however they are only about 50% of the time adjustment needed when going from sea level up to altitude.

Women......D1.......D2.........D3
1500.........5.99.....6.18......6.42
1 Mile........6.47.................6.93
3000...................14.92
3000SC.....15.43..15.95
5000.........26.75...27.63....28.99
10,000.......66.61....68.88.....72.13

Men...........D1.......D2...........D3
1500.........5.12......5.25..........5.35
1 Mile........5.53......................5.78
3000SC....13.54.....13.89........14.10
5000.........22.83....23.81........24.18
10,000......56.53.....57.18.......60.11


The reason for the differing times is because they are based on the NCAA automatic quailifying mark for that event. Those times can be found on the NCAA championships web site. I got these conversions from the "2002 NCAA Men's and Women's Track and Field/Cross Country Rules" book.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

[Dan]

I think the little multi-colored book (blue, green, red, or whatever the color is currently being called) that T&F News sells also lists altitude conversions, but I've never looked at it.

Dan

[Distance_Guru]

The latest one I've heard of is the Big Green Book
_________________
Time is the fire in which we burn

[ghyde]

Wow, you guys are helpful. Distance Guru, I think I need some help intrepreting your chart.

[Distance_Guru]

Sorry about that when I type it up all the numbers line up but when I try to post them they all get smushed together. Basicly take the biggest ajustment in terms of seconds up there and then apply it to what ever distance your running and that should give you a ball park figure for what you could run at sea level.
_________________
Time is the fire in which we burn

[Conway]

The Big Green Book has a couple of pages but not a whole lot ... Dan, didn't Dapena do some work on this ????

[Dan]

DG, try using the 'code' BBCode tags for preserving the formatting for something like that chart.

Conway, I think so, but I'm not sure...

Dan

[training2run]

Now, finally, there's some "scientific schtuff" I can really use.

I've been training nearly two years at a 6500 to 7000 foot altitude, and had no idea what this *really* mean't for low altitude competition (except it was easier).

Up here, pratically no matter how slow you train, you get out of breath. Last December I visited my brother in (sea level) Cleveland, Ohio. When I went for a training run, though I could get tired, I never became breathless.

Unfortunately, this "altitude trained advantage" only lasts a matter of days, and the body begins to revert. I find that I have to arrive at the race city only a day or so before the race to get a real boost. Mad Dog Mike www.training2run.com

[Dan]

I've always heard the effect lasts 2-3 weeks, but maybe that depends on the duration of one's event?

Dan

[training2run]

That certainly may be true in the lab, but in the real world, you begin to lose the advantage immediately - and the longer you're at sea level the more and faster you lose it.

The loss begins gradually, but swiftly increases after a short while. You'll still have an advantage after two or three days, but after two weeks I wouldn't count on it.

It is not, of course, an "off and on" switch. So at two week it doesn't, bang, shut off. The drop in advantage is an ever increasing slope. Mad Dog Mike www.training2run.com

[Distance_Guru]

That's very true. After about three or four days of coming down out of the mountains I always felt like the effects had been very much reduced. Also I had trouble at lower altitude because I was a spoiler. I could always win races where conditions, weather, altitude, ect, slowed down the really fast guys. But I never had the wheels to go with the guys that could run in the low 14 teen range for 5k when conditions were fast.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

[training2run]

Low 14s for a 5K! As far as I'm concerned, those guys are from another planet. Wow !

When I used to play around with Bill Collins and the boys, they could practically finish a 100 before I could completely come up out of the blocks...so I know what you mean by "lacking wheels .

I'm training at 6500/7000 feet, and the next marathon is at 5600, so I'm not concerned about losing conditioning on that one (Sept. 22).

However, the following one (Nov. 10th) is at sea level, and I plan to arrive the day before to take as much advantage as possible, from what I've gained from the heights.

Your experience with "actually" losing conditioning proves to me, that while lab experiments maybe interesting and even helpful, it all really boils down to how the "real world" is effected.

Technically, experiments show that it takes a couple of weeks to lose it all, but even by four days (as you've experienced), a good part is gone. Personally, I find you really have a two or two and a half day window for a big boost - after that it really drops quickly. Mad Dog Mike www.training2run.com

[Dan]

You guys were pretty quick to write off my 2-3 week figure without actually disagreeing with what I said... I didn't say the full benefit lasts x days (thus a +/- 50% range!), just that the effect is said to last that long. And that's not just from lab tests, it's based on altitude training studies of real distance runners.

I doubt anyone can say with certainty how long the maximum effect will last for, because it's sure to vary from one individual to the next, just like everyone's response to altitude varies in the first place.

Dan