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Conway · Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:30 pm Post subject:

It just hit me as to why I have a problem with Meb and Khannouchi and Maree and any others regarding the whole nationality thing ..

As i was looking through results and some other things this weekend I noticed all of the people that are beginning to change citizenship .. Russians in Austrailia .. Africans in America .. Russians in Sweden .. Africans in Denmark .. And what on hte horizon is athletes competing for the highest bidder .. Don't like your own federation ?? Join another .. Want a better deal ?? Negotiate with a country that needs your services .. Too hard to make the squad in your native land ?? Find a country that needs what you have to offer ..

And if you are a country that is one leg short in the 4x1 or 4x4 ??? Hey og out and get yourself one ..

Sound obsurd ?? Hey high school coaches do it for goodness sake .. Let alone college and professional organizations ..

After all we did ask the government for special treatment of Khannouchi now didn't we ?? Wanted to get him in those Olympic games on time .. Smile

Just as Denmark tried .. Austrailia got theirs in on time .. Wink

Micah Ward · Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2002 4:33 pm Post subject:

OH WHAT A CAN OF WORMS!!!!!

I would be suprised if there is a more patriotic flag waver on this forum than me. In a perfect world I would love to see only American born and American trained athletes competing under the American flag. But at the same time this is a nation of laws and the rule of law. So if laws are established to create a mechanism for Meb, KK, et al. to become citizens, and they satisfy those legal requirements, then why are we feeling squemish about them competing as US citizens?

I understand your point Conway. With people jumping from one country to the next it takes on the feel of hired gunslingers.

Distance_Guru · Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2002 5:48 pm Post subject:

First off, I'm about as patriotic as they come. Secondly if they have US citizenship they are Americans 100% period. Now that, that is out of the way I see Conway's point but, I wouldn't worry about the US going out and getting a bunch of Africans to run for the red white and blue in 2004 just yet.
The best example of why is KK. Even when we had the best marathoner in the world who had all the quailifications to become an American citizen and he got stuck for what seemed like forever in red tape. In a strange twist of circumstance, that seems like a bad game of seven degrees of Kevin Bacon, I actually got to talk to a guy who was involved with the whole KK citizenship mess. About three or four years ago, I had a teammate who's dad worked for the INS (he was some kind of supervisor), he was the guy that fired the guy who happened to be working with KK on his citizenship. KK's caseworker was fired for an entirely unrelated reason, anyway as he explained to me all the people that the fired caseworker was working on had to go to another person and they basically were put at the back of the line all over again. Now if we won't even move the best marathoner up a few places in line for a citizenship that it's obvious he'll get eventually, I don't think that we'll be bidding top dollar for the services of the fourth best Kenyan in the near future.
As far as other countries go I have no idea.

_________________
Time is the fire in which we burn

Dan · Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2002 7:06 am Post subject:

Question: Why should citizenship from a legal (i.e. voting) standpoint have anything to do with athletics' nationalism? It's not like a ton of taxpayer money is being poured into the sport...

Dan

Conway · Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2002 7:59 am Post subject:

So if Webb and Ritz were contactacted by some Canadian runners (Kevin Sullivan for example) and told they could live as kings if they would just come ot Canada and train with him and run for the Canadians .. AND they thought it over and said to themselves that that sounds like a wonderful idea .. AND they packed up their bags and headed over the boarder and donned red and white uniforms .. THAT wouldn't bother you guys in the least ?? Wink

Dan · Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2002 8:29 am Post subject:

No more so than it would bother me as a Canadian to see Special K run in the red, white, and blue. Wink

Dan

Distance_Guru · Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2002 10:28 am Post subject:

Justin · Varsity Joined: 08 Oct 2001 Posts: 312 Location: London

I have a couple of thoughts.

First, movement of people across the globe is an unstoppable facet of globalisation and to stick to what might be called traditional tests of belonging (ie country of birth, generations of same nationality etc) is to ignore the reality of the world around.

Second, it's not actually that easy to switch federations. It's easy if you have dual nationality, like Kareem Streete-Thompson, but less so if you simply move. Requirements vary by country but usually you have to have settled for at least 5 years before becoming eligible for a passport and thus selection for your new country. Wilson Kipketer missed an Olympics because he hadn't done his 7 years residence in Denmark.

Marriage can shorten the process of course, but that's a whole big issue itself.

Besides, if it means more good athletes get to compete, so much the better. The WC is the better for Streete-Thompson competing for the Cayman Islands rather than coming 5th in the US trials. The three-per-country rule in the WC is absurd of course, but a whole different discussion!

Justin

Dan · Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2002 6:43 pm Post subject:

Justin makes a lot of good points...

Conway · Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2002 9:33 pm Post subject:

Perhaps Nationalism must be defined .. But doesn't necessarily have to come from somewhere .. Conversley individuals have to come from somewhere .. Preferrably the nation which they represent .. Wink

Switching countries makes for a nice "stew" but you no longer have a pot of corn; or rice; or anything specific ..

IF we are going to define the results of a competition (Worlds, Olys, etc) by some nationalistic standard, then I would deem that that standard have meaning .. People moving to achieve nationalism blurs that meaning .. At least for me ..

Of course the point brought up about the hypocrisy of that with respect to world events has merit and echos my feelings .. Any "WORLD" championships should contain THE best available athletes regardless of nationality .. I say leave nationality to the Olympics shose design was to bring natinons together .. And make the Worlds a true world championship .. Would give new definition to BOTH events and create more excitement for the Worlds ..

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