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Micah Ward
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 3:48 pm    Post subject: Greatest Coaches Reply with quote

We have run several threads on great runners but how about one on the greatest running coaches.

Of course it goes without saying that DG is on the list. Wink

I'll start by throwing out two obvious names that come to mind:

Arthur Lydiard and Bill Bowerman.

Ok who else?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd have to go with

Joe Vigil (the man that made Adams State an unstoppable force while he was there)

Joe Newton (York High School, argueably the best high school cross country program in the country year in and year out.)
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll represent the sprints here and toss in the name that too many people would rather believe never existed... Charlie Francis.

Internationally, how about the St. Patrick's (Kenya) coach? Colm O'Donnell, I think his name is? Luiz de Oliviera warrants strong consideration for his mid-distance accomplishments. Then there's who knows how many old Eastern Bloc coaches who produced amazing results, albeit with some rather questionable methods. Throw Ma Jungren into that group, as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colm O'Connell and Ma Jungren. When it comes to coaches that have athletes with standing records you aren't going to do much better than those two. Some would say that Ma's athletes were on drugs and that Brother Colm was just in the most talent rich area on the planet. But I would have to say that they both merit serious consideration, because they get results.


Bonus: Asked by a reporter if he beat his athletes Ma said

Of coarse I beat my athletes, sometimes they are lazy and do not want to run. So I hit them with a stick and then they run.

Now there's some coaching psychology right there Exclamation
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember seeing that quote a long time ago... Surprised

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Conway
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well let's try San Jose State's Bud Winter (John Carlos, Tommie Smith, Ronnie Ray Smith and Lee Evans) ... His "Rocket start" was the model for at least a decade ...

UCLA's Jim Bush who produced some of the worlds best quartermilers including John Smith, Wayne Collett, Danny Everett, Steve Lewis and Quincy Watts (3 sub 44's) ... Not to mention Greg Foster and Millard Hampton ...

Tom Tellez the coach behind the Santa Monica Track Club and Carl Lewis, Leroy Burrell, Mike Marsh, Joe Deloach and others (3 19.7x's)

And John Smith guru behind the HSI machine and Ato Boldon, Mo Greene, Jon Drummond and crew ...

And how about Wilbur Ross coach of Renaldo Nehemiah ....
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tough to argue against any of those choices. I don't recall ever knowing and subsequently forgetting that all those guys ran for Bud Winter...

Oh, and I left John Smith out because that's too easy of a pick. Smile

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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it hard to add to that list. Francis will never get the credit he deserves. How about Igloi and Cerruty??

Missing are Field Event coaches. Togher (spelling?) was a tremendous hammer and throws coach at Oregon. How about the throws coach at UCLA, name escapes me at the moment.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was curious about where people thought Percy Cerutty would fit in the list...

It gets tricky when you consider all the great athletes who we know little about their coaching situation. For instance, what of ElG and Geb (is Geb coached by Hermens or only managed by him?), East Germany and the old USSR, Kipketer, etc.? Or coaches like Coe and Elliott who reached the top but are known for only a single athlete?

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Conway
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately there is so litttle information available on foreign athletes ... Some of hte best would have to be the old Soviet and East German coaches .... Especiallly those on the women's side ... Drugs aside, what they did from a training standpoint was awwesome ... And the technical aspects to their trianing has to be marveled at ...

I would also have to include the Polish men's coaching system as they have gotten more out of their sprinters and relay teams than one would imagine possible ...

And I would also have ot add the Romanian women's distance coaches ... They have had a marvelous tradition there, Szabo being merely the most recent in a long line of high quality runners ..

Sad that I don't know the names of any of these individuals ...

Conway
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I would also have to include the Polish men's coaching system as they have gotten more out of their sprinters and relay teams than one would imagine possible ...

That's an easily overlooked point that has an interesting twist. Much of Francis' system was influenced by a former Polish National coach, and I consider Francis amongst the all-time best at doing amazing things with the talent available.

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also need to give cudos to the iron curtain field event coaches who did a remarkable job of technically breaking down their events. The Polish triple jump coaches were using plyometrics before plyometrics was even a word!!
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Paul, the Field House forum is hurting for some fanatical posters... Wink

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Conway
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pnb470 wrote:
Also need to give cudos to the iron curtain field event coaches who did a remarkable job of technically breaking down their events. The Polish triple jump coaches were using plyometrics before plyometrics was even a word!!


Eastern coaches in general seemed ot be ahead of the curve on things like plyometrics and isometrics ... By in general i mean not only field event but I know the sprints and hurdles too ...

And while Ma got lots of heat for his secret potions, the Chinese made an art form of herbs and teas and natural medicine thousands of years ago ... We should be importing some of these poeple and putting them on national programs and trying to learn from them instead of immediately condeming what they do !!! We are so afraid of the unknown and still have far too many prejudices ... Its why the world is not just catching up, but blowing by ...

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2002 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of coarse I will agree and disagree with you on that one. I think that as a country we are more than willing to study other methods and listen too what coaches from other countries do, but are fairly hesitant to let the actually coach here. Of coarse one reason for this is that at least on the college level (mainly D2, and NAIA) there are coaches from other countries coaching here. The problem is they usually just bring in their countrymen and don't really have many Americans in their program. And believe me when I say there is little that irritates me more than an a team made of exclusively international athletes with more than one runner slower than 26:00 for a cross country 8k. Since there are plenty of US born runners that can be found to run those times.

Of coarse one explaination for the fact that international coaches recruit and coach mostly athletes from the countries their from is that American athletes don't want to run for foreign coaches. Coming out of high school the only international coach I would have considered running for was McDonnell (sp) at Arkansas, and I wasn't nearly good enough to go there.
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