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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Chief Pontificator


Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice start.

One thing that's always tough to tell at the start of the season with young runners lagging behind is how much of the effect is due to fatigue from upping the mileage and/or intensity to try and hang with the big boys. Once they get accustomed to the training load, the fatigue may settle and you'll get a better indication of how big that gap is.

Also, if I may draw on an example from the Willamette team that may be of relevance... Two years ago was the first full season for the new men's coach (Matt). He brought in 3 really good freshmen and had 2 good, but inconsistent seniors. At our huge home invite (this year's version is expected to have up to 60 teams; Paul, you ought to come down and watch!), the frosh ran the 8k in 24:50, 24:54, and 25:26. The seniors were 25:48 and 25:54. Unfortunately, that gap widened as the season progressed, and #6 man in that race was a distant 26:39. The following year (last year) at the same meet looked like:

24:34 (sophomore)
24:51 (sophomore)
25:15 (sophomore)
25:22 (freshman)
25:34 (freshman)
25:46 (freshman)
26:02 (freshman)
26:15 (freshman)
etc.

This year, Matt thinks 5-7 guys under 25:00 is quite possible, and there isn't a senior on the team! So, what's my point? Just that it looks like you might be at a similar point on your team's growth curve to where Matt's group was 2 years ago (just inversed with the young and old). That doesn't ease the ulcer-inducing 1-5 spread, but at least it might give you consolation for the future... Smile Oh, and pre-season rankings were just released this week, and the Willamette men are ranked a fairly conservative 4th.

Dan
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Paul
Olympic Medalist
Olympic Medalist


Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 1610
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, I'd love to come down. Email some info. Do you want me to stop by your place to start?? Is Lewis and Clark going to be there?? Does Dave Fix still coach at L&C??
Paul
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Distance_Guru
World Class
World Class


Joined: 09 Mar 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Nebraska

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With times like that I can see why you would say that is concervative. I see another D3 powerhouse fairly regularly (I think they were third last year) and I know that they'll be tough but I don't know if they have the horses to run with athletes as fast as the guys you just listed. But that is as an outsider not knowing the entire story with either team. I don't know what they've got this year, but at least now we've got two or three guys that can hang with the better runners on that D3 team, which wasn't the case last year.
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
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Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, could do, yes (they normally are, but I haven't seen this year's entries), and yes. I had planned on just spectating at the meet this year, but I agreed to do the results (as a favor to Matt, so he could concentrate on coaching his guys instead of working the meet), so I may head over to the park earlier and not be the most fun of company...

http://run-down.com/bearcats/xcinvite.php

DG, I assume that was Nebraska Wesleyan? Here's the poll that was just released:

http://raceberryjam.com/ncaaccpolls.html#nc3pollmen

Matt was stuck with the West Region reporting/ranking chores at the last minute, so make of that what you will. Wink

Dan
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Distance_Guru
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Joined: 09 Mar 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Nebraska

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes that's them and I saw the pole. They're a tough team. I really have to give a lot of credit to the coaching staff there. They do a fabulous job of recruiting. It seems like they know the PR, place and time of every runner in the state of Nebraska! They really get out there and hustle. I know they beat me out for one of the better male runners in the state last year, even though their school costs roughly twice as much as mine and the kids coach was an alumni of my university. But that was last year, when I was brand new not only to college coaching and recruiting, but to the state as a whole. I hope I'll be able to put a dent in their recruiting juggernaut, but only time will tell on that one.
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Paul
Olympic Medalist
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Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 1610
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, I take it we're talking Oct 5. You probably want me down at your place by 8 ?? I could call out splits or something, if you wanted my help. This meet looks overwhelming.

I looked up David Fix in the Lewis and Clark athletis bio. I hardly recognized him. He was only one year ahead of me in high school (Wilson).

By the way, what is Noah's last name?? OOPs never mind, found it on the 54.5 hrs to go page.

Paul
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
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Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that be the day. Would you want to be there that early and help out? That meet is such a monster, I'm sure your help would be most appreciated, either on the course or packing those sardines, er, runners, through the finish chute (try to picture 200-300 exhausted runners coming through the chute in about 2 minutes!)... Unlike track meets, XC results have little setup to speak of, so 9 is probably the earliest I need to be there.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Team Guru broadcast... Smile

I didn't realize you knew David. He was apparently quite the runner back in his day.

Dan
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Paul
Olympic Medalist
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Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 1610
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, that would be great. I'm sure there is some simple grunt work I could do that I wouldn't screw up too bad. And you can always give a quick refresher course, anyway. I'm already planning on it. I went to some other pages and looked up the coaches pictures. I remember Spencer from UofO track meets.

Paul
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Micah Ward
Olympic Medalist
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Joined: 08 May 2000
Posts: 2152
Location: Hot&humid, GA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DG, looks like you have a promising squad out there. Be careful of the cliques. The daughter said their team had trouble with that last year. Six of seven freshmen left the team between XC and outdoor track and she said several told her that they never felt like they "belonged". For what it is worth. Confused

Dan and Paul, wish I could work the meet with you. Sounds like fun.
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Distance_Guru
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Joined: 09 Mar 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Nebraska

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice MW, I do my best to make sure that every athlete feels that they are a vital part of the team. And really I've had a lot more sucess with the women than with the men. Of the five freshman girls I had last year I've only lost two, and they left because the realized that they weren't fast enough for competitive college running (niether was sub 6 minutes for 1500).

Here is a little article on our meet. All in all I was pleased with the times. It sure will be nice to get the kids running against someone else. I think it will help improve team unity and really improve their motivation.
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
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Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2002 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading that article, I just have one slight problem... I think we should give Team DG a name other than the Lopers. Sounds too much like a Sunday afternoon jogging group with a penchant for stalking! I'm sure DG would love to have a team name that doesn't look like it was ripped straight from the pages of Runner's World... Smile How about the DG Darkhorses?

Dan
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Distance_Guru
World Class
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Joined: 09 Mar 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Nebraska

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Darkhorses.... I like that! Smile

Loper is actually short for Antelope, which is a pretty cool mascot for running team. Although the name Loper does sound pretty darn slow. It goes along with my theory about surprising people, have a slow mascot and then show up and be fast. Sort of like the team named Sea Cows at your home meet last year.
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Dan
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Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I see you did a bit of studying of the results. Smile The Red Lizards typically bring a strong team, too, and lizards are hardly known for breaking the ground speed records...

Dan
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coachd
Water Boy
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Joined: 09 Sep 2002
Posts: 72
Location: Out west

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2002 10:22 am    Post subject: UNK results Reply with quote

Congrats coach...looks like you're pretty solid on the women's side. Can you get your young guys to step up and close the gap to #1-#3? That will be the story right? Did you see Adams went 1-9 at the Vigil race (women)...of course WSC didn't run anybody strong...UCCS ran at Wyoming and drilled UNC with their best girl going 16:00 for a 4k race. Best of luck and hey...get a job! Wink
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Distance_Guru
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Joined: 09 Mar 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Nebraska

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2002 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw those results. I think Western was playing possum. As for my guys team, I just don't know. Confused My #4 (who sat out the time trial) is hurting, he'll be back I just don't know if he'll be 100% this season. As for the young guys I'd say they'll close the gap just not enough to put us in the hunt for a spot at nationals.

On the women's side I like the direction my girls are going, but there are still plenty of good teams out there. UCCS is always tough, UN-Omaha had a killer recruiting year and a twenty something pack time last week, and NM Highlands looked tough in the results from UTEP's home meet. Of coarse with that meet I had two thoughts first NMHU looks tough. And when did New Mexico State become good!
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