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Angelo Z · Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:23 am Post subject:

Is your name Steve Vandoran? 17:44.14 3 mile run?

http://ny.milesplit.us/athletes/366826

Ok, look at the times of your other teammates and compare them to the the past times (earlier races this season). This will give you a really good idea of how the training really is working because you can look at other people's as well.

http://ny.milesplit.us/teams/GOSHN
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My favorite all time race: Hicham El Guerrouj - Prefontaine Classic Mile 2002 http://youtube.com/watch?v=4YykUTHzOL8
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ssteve235 · Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:58 pm Post subject:

Me and my teammates have already discussed the trainging. Every single one of us, has either stayed the same or gotten worse. Our top guy ran a 16:55 and a 17:06 in the begining of the season and he hasnt broken 17:10 since. Lol FYI i love that website, im on there everyday.

Angelo Z · Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:43 pm Post subject:

Then it's the coach. He/she is definitely training you guys wrong. The workouts are fine and stuff except that your racing schedule is not good, you're training is poorly put together, and you're lacking some fast workouts. I understand tempos, but you really need to run intervals at 4:30-5:00 mile pace to gain speed+lactic endurance. However, the way your training is put is THE main reason. You can still race oftenly as long as you have time to recover here and there (of course you won't make optimal progress), but your workouts are just put at the wrong time. This just shows how big of a role simply putting the training together to match your body's recovery is as opposed to the workouts themselves.

When does your season end?
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My favorite all time race: Hicham El Guerrouj - Prefontaine Classic Mile 2002 http://youtube.com/watch?v=4YykUTHzOL8
¥London 2012 XXX Olympiad¥

ssteve235 · Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:11 pm Post subject:

Nov 6th is the sectional race and then depending on whether we qualify for states, nov 14th

Angelo Z · Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:55 am Post subject:

Alright. Like you said, there isn't much you can do because of your coach. My advice is to drop everything that you're doing independently (with the exception of core+weights) and just do your coach's training only.

Now after your season ends, it's back to base building. Build up to 80-85 miles since you truly built up to 60 miles. First take 2 weeks off after the season ends for you, and then start building from about 55 miles. Add short hills, strides, and that's about it. On your last month or few weeks left, alternate between an interval/tempo session each week and add 30-40 sec surges on some of your other easy runs. When track starts, cut down right away. After that (if your body can handle this,) build up your mileage (independent running) in track every 3 weeks or so and then cut back 1 week.

For example, you cut back to 50 miles, then build up to 65-70 miles over 3 weeks, and then you cut back for 1 week. Beware, you can't do this unless you don't have proper recovery between hard workouts/meets just like the problem you're facing now or else that will do you more harm than good.

If you have one good week of rest (doesn't have to necessarily be no running), but one good week for your body to recover, you will run the 5K much faster. Right now it's only slow because your body has not recovered, and your body can get worse, but that takes a few weeks/months, depending on how harsh your body is being treated (which I assume that won't happen).
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My favorite all time race: Hicham El Guerrouj - Prefontaine Classic Mile 2002 http://youtube.com/watch?v=4YykUTHzOL8
¥London 2012 XXX Olympiad¥

ssteve235 · Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:07 pm Post subject:

Thats just the thing, i have taken it easy the past 3 weeks. I cut out all of the after practice running and still im getting worse. I had an invitational yeterday and on a tough course i finished 2nd on my team and 23rd overall. So i guess im hopefully on my way back. Also starting on last wednesday i added a 4 mile run after practice. Im going to do something after every practice. Im used to running alot of miles, so maybe going back to that will help.

Concerning after xc training. Two weeks off is way, way, way too much. Ill take a week off tops and then get back into it. The problem with my winter training is that i have to run indoor meets and crap so i need to train with those in mind.

The practices for indoor are a joke and so is the coach. Me and another friend are already planning on either skipping most of the practices entirly or going for attendance, doing our own run/workout when the coach tells us to go out and come back, and then showing up at the end of practice. The coach wont do anything about this considering im the top miler and my friend is the top 800 runner on the team, and last year our two top milers did the same thing and nothing happened.

Ive aleady got a basic outline of what im going to be doing during the winter months but i really dont want to think about it now. I need to focus 100 ercent of my attention on these last few weeks of XC and trying to qualify for states.

Angelo Z · Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:33 am Post subject:

Body-wise, 2 weeks isn't much at all. It takes a long time for your body to "forget" or atrophy back to the way it was. I always take 2 weeks off, Dan has reccomended 2 weeks, and Daniels' book says that 2 weeks will work. I don't see any other reason for taking less than 2 weeks off unless you don't really have time to build up that base. Elite runners take up to 4 weeks off a year, and more for the ultra/marathoners. The first week is where your body will recover the most and the second week is where your mind will clear up and be set on the new type of training, so it's more like mental recovery. That's why it always seems like I haven't ran for so long but at the same time, 2 weeks is also "harmless" for my body. You're body will lose speed anyway during base season so there is no way around it, not even the short hills you add throughout-they play a small part, but they really pay off when you start a 5K/track season. I ran a 5K time trial a couple of weeks ago and it was so mediocre that I won't even share my time because I haven't done any hard stuff for so long, but right now my paces are dropping pretty fast because my 5K season lasts all the way through the end of January. But yeah, if you're really short on time with the indoor track season, it's perfectly understandable.

Wow, if you already did that, I don't know what to say...Perhaps taking the training easy without looking like too much of a slacker? Eh, it's the frequency of racing! Haile made a good a point while he was being interviewed by a reporter, "Race, but not too much." What makes me cringe even more are the days after your meets. Try going to sleep early everyday and eat as much as you can, think of every bite as an extra ounce of energy. Don't get competetive in training, think of training as a relief period. The biggest mistake when approaching the end of the season is putting more effort into training and less into racing. This isn't like homework anymore that also affects your grade, it's like a test. 1 race, 1 win.
_________________
My favorite all time race: Hicham El Guerrouj - Prefontaine Classic Mile 2002 http://youtube.com/watch?v=4YykUTHzOL8
¥London 2012 XXX Olympiad¥

ssteve235 · Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:40 pm Post subject:

Yeah i really dont have the time to take a full two weeks off. XC will end either the 7th or the 14th and the first indoor meet is the middle or end of december...not much time at all. Indoor im not going to take completly seriously, race wise that is. Its going to be more of a training period to get me ready for outdoor track.

Ive got 3 weeks left into the sectional race. Im going to take it as hard as i can for the next two and then taper off for a week to get rested for that big race.

Dan · Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:07 pm Post subject:

IMO, you're better off taking the rest (2 weeks) and gearing back up slowly for indoor. Why worry about getting ready for a December meet when you'll have plenty more through January and February, and none of them are all that important anyway?

But like you said, keep your focus on finishing XC strong.

Dan
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ssteve235 · Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject:

Yeah your right, the first few meets dont count. But two weeks would put me way too far behing schedule. One is perfect though.

I still dont want to think about it though, the meat of the XC season is coming up within the next 2 and a half weeks.

Indeurr · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:08 pm Post subject:

Myself, when we did run too much in the US Army, I had always have waited for a 3 or 4--day weekend to rest a day, and for a day or two to work on speed.
Your coach needs to read on ... Periodization! You have to find a way to mention it a couple times, but in a way that would strike the coach's curiosity, and only curiosity!
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Angelo Z · Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:51 pm Post subject:

It's normal though, the majority of high school coaches these days don't train their runners that well. Insane workouts that are way out of the optimal range, very little rest, tons of meets, only 20-15% of all varsity high school runners nationwide run the mile under 4:30.
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My favorite all time race: Hicham El Guerrouj - Prefontaine Classic Mile 2002 http://youtube.com/watch?v=4YykUTHzOL8
¥London 2012 XXX Olympiad¥

ssteve235 · Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject:

Well knock on wood, im back. I ran a 17:35 today at the county championships placing 47th. I feel as if i could have run better but overall im pretty happy. My first mile was alot better then usual, 5:28 compared to the usual 5:40 but my kick was not as good as it usually is. I wasnt able to kick down as many kids as i normally do in the last quarter mile. But i guess still we havent done as much speed as we should have. I guess the extra miles i put in for the last three weeks have helped. One more week of hard training then the section meet where i will hopefully qualify for states. Then its over! I cant wait for the track season to get here!

ssteve235 · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:44 pm Post subject:

Just an update, as a team we lost sections 45-47 but i took the last qualifying spot by kicking past 4 kids in the last quarter mile, 3 of those in the last 150. I ran a 17:39, not my best time but it was COLD.

Dan · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject:

Congrats. Bittersweet, to be sure. Were you #1 on the team or did anyone else qualify along with you?

Dan
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