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Running & Weigh Lifting
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Driven off...we need to show some diplomacy towards these people. We shouldn't generalize eachother and make final thoughts about eachother. And you know what-I believe you. I might be reckless but not blind. I know what people here think of me and I don't expect positive remarks. As much as we argued, I still hold my respect. As for Indeurr, I know that I sometimes come up with these bizarre examples. Heck, I won't use my age as an excuse because I never even stand down outside of the net. Monitor this post for diplomacy's sake for our new guest but I hope you still heard me out.
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Indeurr
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Joined: 08 Aug 2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing: the way that you weight lift is the way that you will utilize your body in a race.

You cannot weight lift for two full hours, surpress your hormonal levels, do it at slow pace (this is what too many of the Polish dashers such as ... Marcin Urbas believe in; nota bene: he ran 19.98 200 m when he was trying to catch up after 1st major injury and was performing all his training with great haste), and expect that the body acustomed to move at slow pace will perform well at the top speed.

The difference between a marathon runner and a dasher is only one: the number of repeats in a set.

Both should lift the weights using correct technique and in a rapid manner.
Of course neither will come any where close to the speed of a 100 m dash or even a marathon (road race), but they should not do it at a slow pace.

Any weight lifting session should be kept to under an hour; you may, however, perform a couple or even a few sessions a day.

Long (two or even three hours long) sessions will lower you hormonal levels and lead to injuries (again the Polish athletes -- very injury prone. What took the cake in tough--to--the--point--of--plain--stupid was when Mrs. Chojecka, 1500 m specialist, told the Polish mass media that her caoch did her a favor by letting her to practice in shade--waht about common sense?-- and she did not get used to the climate -- sorry, but some persons like me or her will never get used to a hot and humid climate, and the only favor you can do for them is to arrive as late as possible and hold all exercise sessions indoors with great climate control. In the competition, in the final, suffering from a prolonged heat--and--humidity exposure, she just dropped all the way to the back of the race by about 1K mark).
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Last edited by Indeurr on Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Training is crucial for differences in 800m-10000m. What I mean is that the type of training is very important for each distance up to 10K. Milers and long distance runners can both run up to 120 miles a week, but long distance runners are still faster in the 5k and 10k. Wilson Kipketer's mile time is not that astonishing, it's 3:59. What energy pathways you train and how much is key. Compare Bekele, Haile, and Hicham. They all have one thing in common: 1000m and 2000m intervals. Hicham would only do 4x2000 and 6x1000 while Bekele and Haile did 5 and 10. All three have steady runs at 5:00 mile pace, and recovery runs as well. A distance runner would not necessarily run more than a distance runner. Also look at Haile's marathon training. We are talking 26 miles here, his weekly mileage? About 100-120. I've even seen 150 on other marathoners. Jim Ryun's mileage? 120 miles. Sebastian Coe's mileage? About 60. Hicham's? 55-60. Webb's? 60-70. It looks like a lower mileage indeed helps, but it's not the mileage itself, it's the level of quality. In fact I don't want to use the word quality because running faster is not translated as quality, look at Haile's training for the marathon and he's the world's best marathoner.

And about rapid reps...it's pretty aruguable. Some say that slow reps give the muscle a "pump" and momentum is kept at bay. Muscles do tend to get sore faster with faster reps through out a set. Maybe that's the key, because as the muscle starts to fatigue, the individual puts in more intensity.

My weightlifting session takes about 40 minutes (for the legs). As for my core sessions, it can take up to 2 hours. Although I've cut back on the amount of reps drastically to do v-ups instead. I've been trying to get my core to pop out even further. Runners cannot have bulk, but they can certainly have abs like these: http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/lens1436979_ripped_abs.jpg

Despite looks, more mass does translate into strength. I believe that the leading cause of not making any gains is patience. Think about it, the core isn't worked out with resistance like the other muscles are. Surprisingly enough, high reps, which the core needs, does add mass. You know, I do fully agree with the fact that abs will not show through unless fat is covering them but in my case, I need to add mass so they can poke out more. You can put me next to a bodybuilder and you can clearly see that his abs are bigger no matter what. Whenever I need help with weightlifting, bodybuilding.com is always there.
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just found an interesting article: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jamesk4.htm

I have come up with a new point of view: endurance vs. heavy weightlifting for running. Here's the fact, muscular endurance in running barely plays a role. After about 2 weeks of running, your muscles already adapt to the endurance needed for running. Now you decide to hit the gym and start doing some real endurance workouts. The result for running? Nothing. All you do is increase the endurance, not the strength. The endurance level is already at what it is just by simply running, doing more squats won't do anything else. Runners know how to run, but I'm afraid to say this, but they barely know a single thing about lifting. They just go with high reps for a bunch of leg exercises and the core. I am not afraid to admit that I followed this path before. I'll be honest, I didn't make any gains in muscle strength or size. Now size is good, even if it comes with extra weight. All of that translates into strength. I read an article once and it had this interesting phrase in it, "The ground will only give you what you give it back."

Now think about this: runners do HIGH reps for the core. Why?! The stronger the core is, the more it can support the upperbody. Here's what I mean: if you give a skinny person or someone with a weak core a heavy barbell to squat which their legs can actually handle, they'll be snapped in half or better yet the barbell will end up falling sideways. I'm talking about runners who can squat truly heavy, that weight couldn't be supported as well as a free weight. So why increase core endurance? Running puts stress on the core. You can check it by trying to feel your core muscles jolt, or move while you run. If you feel them flexing, they obviously have their own part.

Back to the ground-force relationship, the harder you pound the ground the more air you get-Newton's 3rd law. That's not necessarily the only way it works. The other way is your spring-like force up from the ground, like doing a jump squat. Runners are on the right path. They have learned plyometrics help. They are however, at the beginning of learning how to weightlift effectively thus the "ballistic" training program. Ballistics are basically lifting weights with fast contractions. Lifting a weight slowly increases one's potential strength that they can put into the ground, but that's nothing without speed. That strength needs to somehow move quickly to be effective. It's like holding a sledgehammer but instead of swinging directly onto an object, you tap it instead. Speed translates into power too because if you swing that hammer as fast as you can, then that weight was put to good use. However, our legs aren't built for putting force out based on the principle of weight like a hammer is. The leg muscles act as springs. Think of a very strong pair of legs look like a pair of thicker metal springs. There is expanding and contracting in the leg muscles when someone runs. The difference between a thick metal spring, and a pair of powerful legs is that it doesn't get harder to contract the leg muscles rather than the metal spring. So now I hope it makes sense how strength is more effective than endurance in running.
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•London 2012 XXX Olympiad•
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wikywik
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you should have a schedule, I usually run before weight training. But I dont do hard workouts on the day I run (cardio)
2 days per week hard workout
2 days per week cardio + little workout.
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CrshOverride
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:00 pm    Post subject: Don't quote me on this Reply with quote

It depends how intensely you weight lift. I was pretty successful with doing a fairly moderate weight lifting routine followed by a run. The benefit of this, is you end up being less sore than you would have been just weight lifting. This has to do with the increased blood flow, and the differences your body undergoes for aerobic versus anaerobic workouts. Nor did I ever really want to weight lift after I ran since I'd be all sweaty.

The flip side, is that a little cardio before weight lifting can really maximize you weight lifting. The increased blood flow and warmed muscles will help you push harder. It all depends what your focus is on.
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ross88guy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I try to fit in at least one lower body gym session into my weekly routine as it is a good way of keeping injury free and building up the support muscles that you use when running.

What I tend to do is to blast my lower body in the gym one evening after running that morning. I then go swimming the next day to give my muscles a chance to recover and then by the second day after the gym I can get back to running.


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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I typically do likewise, saving the intensive strength work for after a hard workout, so as to leave 24+ hours to recover before the next hard session.

Dan
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spiralthinker
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally weight train three days a week. This consists mainly of light upper body workouts. I run three days a week as well, but not on lifting days. This leaves me with one day off and I have found this to work well for me. You just need to find what works best for you. Not everyone recovers the same, so adjust your workouts to fit your personal needs.
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Boblish342
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do weight training for almost a month but I can't get that ab figure! Sad

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Irun100s
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:00 pm    Post subject: Free weights vs machines Reply with quote

Running and weigh training go hand in hand. I read an article about the difference between free weights vs machines and it gave me a great idea of how to apply it to my running training. After reading the article I did decide to go with more free weights than machines, but there are some exercises that I just enjoy doing on the machines.

[url]http://www.hawaiianshirtray.com/training-exercise/free-weights-machines/[/url]


I hope this helps.
Irun100s
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