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Guest · Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2001 3:30 pm Post subject:

Clarence DeMar. If he hadn't taken 10 years off in his prime, on dr.'s mistaken advice, he'd have won 10 more Boston's.

[Anonymously Posted by: 'Boston Bong']

Guest · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2001 3:08 pm Post subject:

Right! De Mar was best.

[Anonymously Posted by: 'pink torpedo']

Guest · Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2001 6:48 am Post subject:

Who's DeMar?

Guest · Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2001 12:40 pm Post subject:

He won the Boston Marathon in 1911 or 1912. Then a doctor told him he had an enlarged heart or something and forced him to give up running. 10 years later he came back and won several Boston's in a row... Smile

[Anonymously Posted by: 'Boston Bong']

Guest · Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2001 2:16 pm Post subject:

oh ,thanks for the info, boston bong , well , I'm just a 3k , 5k , 6k , and 10k runner so , I wouldn't know any of those marathon runners......except the greatest ones of all, of course , that everyone hears about .......

Conway · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2001 5:09 pm Post subject:

I'm relatively new to this discussion group so wasn't here a year ago when this thread was started .. But I am going to pick it back up and hope you all do too since it didn't seem to come to any conclusion ..

I will do so by saying that Pre was the greatest American runner (as being defined as a distance runner) ..

That Michael Johnson (as much as I dislike him) is the greatest American runner non distance ..

And will ask this question which I think will actually aid in the discussion on the above duo .. And the question is: Which of the following was the greatest:

Seb Coe; Steve Ovett; Steve Cram; Said Aouita; Nouredine Morcelli; Miruts Yifter; or Eammon Coghlan ???

Your answers please !!!!!

Dan · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2001 10:03 pm Post subject:

Since there's no way of deciding this with any finality, I'm much more comfortable sitting back and shooting down other people's suggestions. Wink

I'll say a tie between Coe and Aouita for longevity of record and range of performances, respectively.

Dan

Conway · Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2001 10:48 am Post subject:

I'll agree with your choice of Aouita .. Range and then some .. Olympic caliber from 800 through 5000 .. And a tough competitor .. Is the same reason why I coose Pre as the greatest all time American distance runner ..

How can a runner be over rated when he is world class at every distance from the mile through the 5000/3 mile ?? When he was near WR times in almost everything he ran .. Sure his legend has grown through the years .. And yeah a lot of that has to do with the way he died .. But we're not evaluating him on how he died but rather how he lived .. And he lived for track and his performances showed it .. As did his tenacity and drive .. If any ohter American previously named had half of Pre's heart they too would have become a legend / icon ....

Max Keeble · Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 10:28 pm Post subject:

Maurice Greene! Smile

Conway · Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2002 10:33 am Post subject:

Wow Max .. As much as I am a huge sprint fan .. And definitely a fan of Mo's .. I wouldn't put Mo in that category .. Yet !!

He is definitely proving to be one of the best, if not the best ever in the 100 .. But I think he would need to do more in the 200 to be considered one of the best "sprinters" of all time ..

As far as best runner of all time, I Think distance runners have an advantage in that it is easier to move up and down the distance scale .. So one can do well at many more events ..

Distance_Guru · Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:57 am Post subject:

If were talking all distances nobody can hold a candle to Carl Lewis, even when you take away his gold medals from long jump he still has somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 or 9 olympic gold medals and he dominated the wolrd in the 100m for the better part of a decade, setting and resetting the world recoed along the way.
As far as distance runners. I'd have to go with Frank Shorter, the guy wins Olymipc gold in the marathon and 4 years later gets silver behind a guy that we now have documented evidence that he was doping and most people remember him as the guy Pre beat in his last race, poor Frank.
Honorable metions:
Jim Ryun, Bill Rodgers, Craig Virgin, Billy Mills, Alberto Salazar, and Steve Scott.

_________________
Time is the fire in which we burn

Conway · Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 12:20 pm Post subject:

I like your list of distance runners, but I have two issues ... One you seem to leave Pre off of your list .. He is not your number 1 nor is he on your honorable mention list .. So I am curious as to where you see Pre in the grand scheme of things ..

Second I'm not in total agreement with your comments on Carl .. As far as Carl dominating for a decade the 80's went as follows .. Stanley Floyd was teh dominate one in 1980 .. Carl was clearly the best in 81, & 82, but Calvin Smith was as good and set the WR in 83 .. Carl won the games in 84 so was best but from 85 through 88 Ben Johnson was clearly the better sprinter .. Then in 89 it was clearly Ray Stewart's year .. Carl did little of consequence in the 90's - except one race in Tokyo .. Which takes me to records .. Carl was given the record of 9.92 in a race in which he lost ... Yes Ben was on drugs but lord knows who else was !!! Bottom line was Carl lost .. Should we disqualify all the people he "beat" that were later shown to be on drugs ??? No, then the boast becomes he beat them anyway !!! No complainingn then .. Sad

.. Carl did set the record on his own one time in Tokyo at 9.86, but then couldn't break 10.02 ever again for the rest of his career !!! What does that say for his record ..

Carl was clearly the King of the long jump .. No argument there .. Hands down .. But when it comes to the 100 the vision of Carl closing the line in a depleated 100 field in 1984 is what seems to be stuck in everyone's mind .. That was his last moment of greatness until his Tokyo race in 91 - and then nothing after ...

Now I will say that he did handle most of the domestic cocmpetition during the 80's ... BUT the 100 was in a state of transition .. And many of the would be dominate forces left the sport to pursue football .. Sort of like having all the seniors graduate early and leaving you to lord over the sophomores ... Hard for me to get excited about that .. Sad

Distance_Guru · Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 4:57 pm Post subject:

The reason I left Pre off is not that I don't think he was a great runner, I just think he's overrated. All the guys on my list either won major championships, (world x-c, Olympic gold, Boston or New York marathons) or still hold a major American record.
I just like winners and Pre never won, and I just can't put him in because of what he might have done.

_________________
Time is the fire in which we burn

Distance_Guru · Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 5:01 pm Post subject:

Oh and Jim Ryun stay's on the list because he was the first US high schooler to go sub-4. Smile

Conway · Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 8:38 am Post subject:

Hmmm ... Based on your own criteria then it would seem that only the marathoners should be on your list .. As they are the only ones to win anything of note outside of a US champinonship .. Mills did win Oly gold but did little else .. Ryun had great HS success but his post high school career was very checkered .. Sad

..

There has been much debate as to whether or not Pre was over rated .. I will say that I put him at the head of the pack for the following reasons .. More than any other US distance runner he took the race to the outsiders (non Americans) .. Yes he lost (as in didn't get first a lot) .. But he always ran great or near his PRs (if not setting new ones) .. And no one ever beat him with anything less than their "A" game .. Ryun and Scott lost many big races in times far under their PR's - races tehy shoudl have won .. And got blown out in races where they clearly should have been favorites ..

If greatness in any way, shape, or form is defined by the level of competition one brings to his event, then Pre was the epitome of greatness as he NEVER brought anything less than his "A" game .. Others have run faster - in races that didn't matter .. But no one competed better when it counted .. See the clock doesn't begin to tell the whole story .. Smile

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