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V02 Excersise
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:36 pm    Post subject: V02 Excersise Reply with quote

Ok so I read an article stating that 80% of a sub 4 minute mile requires strong lungs. Tthe other 20% is leg speed, stride length, etc. If I have a Vo2 max of 80 I can actually literally run close enough to a sub 4. So I thought about how to train this Vo2 max thing. And I came up with an excersise I havent seen anywhere and I want to know from those that know more about Vo2 if its a great excersise. First off vo2 max is clearly the amount of oxygen your lungs can hold. While I run, is it ok to literally force air into my until I cant inhale anymore? When I do that my body also "hops" a little bit. Instead of exhaling out all the air 1 second after inhaling you inhale again and force air into your lungs. I also wonder if this works while you are resting. By literally trying to force oxygen into your lungs like if you were to live somewhere with twice as less oxygen than earth. If I do this excersise everyday will it really improve my lungs greatly?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You must read Lore of Running by Noakes, MD. It is not as simple, and you may be right.
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thank you, do you think It might even work when you are at rest? Its supposed to look silly and exaggerated like you need oxygen so it looks like you have an asthma attack. Will the excersise change your lungs phyically in terms of enlarging them? And about vo2 max, does it depend on you size of your lungs or just efficiency of them? Also may I ask, tell me about yourself, are you a runner, a coach, etc.?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey: read! Or I could get some excerpts from the book for you, but in the world of the Theory of the Sports, running included, there are many different views and notions; many of those views held by very learned people are contradictory.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mile is the shortest long distance, and VO max may not be as much a factor as in the case of a marathon. Sebastian Coe's VO max, according to The Lore of Running by Noakes M.D., was only 77.0 (he establish a new world record for the mile in 1981), and Derek Claytons and Willie Mtolo (marathon racers whose PB's were 02:08:34 and 02:08:15, respectively) were 69.7, and 70.3 respectively.
John Ngugi and Dave Bedford did possess the highest VO max: both 85.0.
According, to Noakes, it is not your VO max, but how little work do you do at a high constant speed: the running economy decides whether you will succeed at the elite level; however, without a high enough VO max, you may never make the elite level in the 1st place.
This is also why mileage has to be tied—up with quality (speed); you cannot learn how to run in a relaxed manner, using as little energy as possible, at the race pace when during training you are jogging or running slowly.
If you are running, and your heart rate is at or below 70% of the maximum, unless you are trying to lose weight, you are wrong!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgcD2akmeJc
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Last edited by Indeurr on Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"This is also why mileage has to be tied—up with quality (speed); you cannot learn how to run in a relaxed manner, using as little energy as possible, at the race pace when during training you are jogging or running slowly."

I have trouble with formulas for heart rates, etc. In general how should 70% intensity feel like? When do like 30-45 minute runs my breathing is in betweem stable (not many deep, fast breaths needed) and unstable (from time to time need to inhale more, feels like little oxygen).

If I cannot learn how to run in a relaxed manner at little energy then how do I do it? Wait I forgot...Hicham's program that I use has fartleks or workouts known as "race pace" 6-5-4-3-2 min fast running. He goes down to 30 seconds rest but im more amateur so I do around 2 minutes. About the running economy..I can run as good as Hicham as good as his running economy, but only for like 200 meters. Even though I can run at his economy I cant run AS long as he can. I simply just break down and it gets extremely painful. But what decides the other 3 and a half laps though...cardiovascular strength and Vo2? Maybe Coe had a low Vo2 but he had extremely good anaerobic endurance. I run at 70% even 80% and that is still not high as race pace. Who can run at a race pace of a mile for 30-45 minutes.....isnt 77 vo2 pretty high also? Only 8 from 85


Last edited by Angelo Z on Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And about running economy...I breathe in through my nose, and out my mouth. I focus on the height of my knees when I sprint, and I keep my chest out. I literally flex my calves and push hard at the ankle when I run also, and I keep my arms no higher than my shoulders. How can running economy make such a big difference, I imitate Hicham's form and still cant run a 3:43. Hicham is also only 4 inches taller than me. I have looked at every angle Hicham runs at, ankle bends, stride length, etc. He ran at 7 meters per second I can run at the same speed too, but not as long. I compared my sprinting to his and my form and me and him both look pretty much the same when we run (chest out, full stride, etc.) If you have any breathing patterns please tell me. I take in one deep breath through my nose and exhale through my mouth. I don't do quick small breathes to inhale and exhale.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if you run a shorter distance, up to 1 K (1000 meters: 2 ½ laps), you may benefit from running like The King, but when you run any longer distance, for know you should try to run as relaxed as possible.
In distances up to 500 meters: your knees should come all the way so your thighs are parallel with the surface beneath your feet; your feet should be dragged just beneath your butt; and ... this is the main difference between a 10.50s 100 m dasher and 10.25s 100 m dasher : the leg recovery or the final snap/slam of the calves and feet back down to the ground even if it means getting nearly flat—footed for a split second (it is easiest to practice it in a pool)--it is better to slam it back down flat than to hop; but, a master dasher, 10.10s runner, can slam it down, and still manage to land on the balls of his or her feet. Your upper body should be upright, but not at attention—like position: watch a tractor without the trailer accelerate from the halt at traffic lights: the cab is nearly straight up, except for a barely perceivable lean forward. Your hands and face must remain relaxed: either wide opened, fingers together, or even bent, but never tightly—closed fists.
That was an advise for the dashers.
The 800 meters runners have to do the same, but not as exactly; therefore, for example, the knees never get high enough, except for the final kick, for the tights to be parallel to the surface.
As to the 1500 m; I do believe that at the present you would benefit more from running like the 800 m specialist, than the “dasher” of the milers, The King.
A great book to borrow from the library would be Track and Field Coaches Survival Guide.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run from the 800 to the 5000 just like Hicham. My form is like Hicham's too, if you watched the video of "world record mile trance" with Hicham he keeps his fingers bent in and his thumbs resting on his index fingers like I do. The only form I cant get like Hicham is the leg motion. His leg motion in the mile amazes me, how do I get that "leaping cheetah leg motion?" Here is the link: http://youtube.com/watch?v=674UY0ehxWI

If you look at them from the side or profile their legs move really fast it looks like they are covering up to 15 meters in on stride (exaggerating). I want my legs to have that look when I am running, it looks smooth, and professional. It looks like they have cones for legs, their legs look so pointy and slender. Look at 2:08 for example in the mile (not the video length). They look like they are flying, since I don't have a coach I look at my shadow when I run and try to match it like Hicham's and Noah Ngeny's or Tanui. Sometimes when I run I feel sluggish like my legs weigh 100 pounds, and other times I feel like Im gliding.
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have noticed that if I am going for a record break attempt, at the end, I cannot even inhale because my lungs would hurt like I swallowed bread. At how much intensity should I train my vo2 max in % at a distance of 1000-2000 meters? How much slower in minutes or seconds than at race pace?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check this web page of a an excellent web site:
http://www.brianmac.co.uk/vo2max.htm
The simplest way to approximate your VO 2max at present is the Cooper's Test: check it out as well.
I cannot help you; and in this case, I have to tell you that with the respect to the mile races VO 2 max is not as crucial as in the case of longer races.
Why cannot I help you? I am not an expert in this area.
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http://vincovitanj.tripod.com/Do_not_be_a_victim1/index.htmlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u43o595CARQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x22Alfgv0DY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgcD2akmeJc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB0RcWYMwXU
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My old friend:
http://www.brianmac.co.uk/kosmin.htm
This does change with practice.
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http://vincovitanj.tripod.com/Do_not_be_a_victim1/index.htmlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u43o595CARQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x22Alfgv0DY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgcD2akmeJc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB0RcWYMwXU
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use that website everytime. VERY good source.
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