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Conway
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to be the bubble breaker, but Carl tested positive at the US Trials in '88 Along with about a half dozen other athletes !!! USOC didn't report it and let them all go to Seoul anyway So technically Carl shouldn't have been in Seoul to even run against Ben

This is why the whole issue of banning Jerome Young was such a big deal And why the USOC and the USATF were called on the carpet - because of what had happened in '88 !!! So Carl's career is not as pristine as some would think Matter of fact, of the finalists in '88, Ben, Carl, Linford and Mitchell ALL tested positive at some point between '88 and '98, with Ben and Dennis serving bans

And I won't even begin to discuss the various speculations and rumors surrounding most of the folk that ran during the 90's Let's just say that to say that Ben's career should be ignored and everyone else acknowledged is somewhat hypocritical

As for Gat and 'Safa, there was nothing brewing after the Olympics Talk of rivalry didn't even begin until 'Safa ran his WR - and he was healthy for only 1 race afterwards !!! The rivalry was anticipated this year and heightened with Gatlin equaling the record But of course we know the events since that point !!!
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Kishan Gill
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am aware of that story conway, I recall reading it last year I believe. After refreshing my memory it would be hard to weasel out of that one.

It is true that Johnson has been held up as the fall guy for all cheats before and after him . However I can say with some certainty that Lewis career was not riddled with drug abuse. I cannot believe I am sayng that to cheat less makes one entitled to take the moral high ground. It does sound very hypocritical on my part.

If Lewis cheated throughout his career it would be one of the biggest deceptions in sporting history. I think he was clean for the most part and if he did what he did in 1988 it was maybe a desperation to stay at the top and who knows it could have been a Knee jerk reaction to Johnson tearing his crown to shreds as the worlds greatest sprinter. Nevertheless it doesn't make it right.

As for Powell and Gatlin. You are a man of precision Conway. True that the olympics did not indicate to the media that the two sprinters are rivals but it is hard not to accept that the two became visible as emerging rivals. Powell who looked unbeatable in the rounds and then Gatlin who pulls out the big performance when it matters.
The following year the rivalry was being acknowledged by the media despite the distinct lack of races. Their was certainly a lot of hype before their clash in crystal palace that turned out to be a dissapointment of sorts with Powell getting injured.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
However I can say with some certainty that Lewis career was not riddled with drug abuse.

There were a lot of first-hand accounts to the contrary, but that's not the purpose of this thread... There's a slim chance I'll actually be meeting Carl next month, so I should keep my mouth shut!

As I recall, Powell and Gatlin were never tipped as rivals. The public rivalry was Powell and Greene, with Gatlin still being in the shadows.

Dan
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Kishan Gill
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It just shows how endemic the problem is in track and sport in general (the tour de france story as a recent example) that it is hard to have a discussion without the subject of drugs creeping in at some point.
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AM_Runner
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know the full story but I thought there was some ambiguity to that positive test on Lewis and that it wasn't anything near what Johnson was like but I don't know...
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Kishan Gill
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gay runs a fab 19.84 and breaks MJs long standing all-comers record of 19.85 way back in 1990.
Carter was again on the outside lane that he prefers but was unable to pull ahead in the last 40 to 50 but still finished a creditable 19.98 ahead of last years winner spearmon who ran a modest 20.11. Bolt was way behind in fourth in 20.54.
In the post race interview Carter felt he had not run his own race and rather stayed too focused on Gay. Maybe since his 19.63 which has elevated him to a track star from an unknown debutant he felt the pressure of the expectations made on him in the pre race interviews.
I am sure experience will sort that out in due time.
As I mentioned earlier Gays 19.70 was an amazing run and many fail to appreciate it as it was generally forgotten due to carters time.
Gay is becoming a well rounded 100/200 sprinter.

Other notable runs in london included Wariners 43.99 , just 1/100th of MJs allcomers record and Sanya Richards running a world leading 49.05 and breaking the previous best on british soil set by Kratochvilova set way back 1n 1983. Both runners were miles ahead of the competition and looked so relaxed.

Powell continued his dominance with an easy 9.91 win into a -0.6 wind.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happened to London always producing slow sprint times???

Dan
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X King
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think before the weather played a big part in London not producing the quickest of sprint times, but for many meetings this year we've had awesome weather which has suited the sprinters [Gateshead to name the first]

Gay's 19.84 was awesome. I thought he was goin to be run-down [lol] again, but he stayed strong and recorded that super time. Carter was great too. Backed up his form by going sub20 in what has been a long season for him. Just think, if he hadn't have had gone 19.63, 19.98 woulda be seen as a 'coming of age' race for him
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Kishan Gill
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A new track surface was laid I believe last year after renovation work. The mayor of London almost scrapped the crystal palace venue but made an about turn. It would not have been a popular decision.
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X King
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to see Gay attempt at least one 400m race - I can see him churning out a sub-45.00, not sure why I would want to see him do a 400m though - just to see how he would do, and where he would be placed in the 100 / 200 / 400 combined all-time ranking

I really wanna see Gay vs. Powell vs. Carter vs. Spearmon in the duece though ... that would probably be the race of the year. Powell has untapped 200 potential [19.90 with an easy bend, easing-off at 190m / he also has some 20.0s & 20.1s from the past which coulda easily been faster with better conditions or better tactics from Powell] - I doubt we'd see that race though, coz the BIG $$$ are in the 100 ...
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gay and Carter both seem to have fantastic range across the sprints. They could have some epic duels in the 100, 200, and 400!

Dan
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AM_Runner
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for the 400 for Gay hey why not I wonder if he ran any in College at Arkansas... Something I will have to look up> It doesn't seem to have hurt Spearmon at all this year to run a few 400's a good year to experiment with it...

What a race that would be X King.... Crawford and Bolt in that race as well...

I know its been mentioned before and some dont agree but I woul dstill loveto see Wariner attempt an 800 at some point.
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Conway
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AM_Runner wrote:
I don't know the full story but I thought there was some ambiguity to that positive test on Lewis and that it wasn't anything near what Johnson was like but I don't know...


Carl's test came up positive for about 4 different substances ... None of which individually was "too much", but collectively would have been ... The decision by the USOC was based on the value of each indivdual substance and not the sum total of the substances - if that makes any sense ... And one or two of the substances were stimulants which could have been used as masking agents for other substances ...

Bottom line is that there were definitley substances in his system, BUT was hard to prove just what effect anything was having and nothing singularly was "over the limit" ...
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Conway
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

X King wrote:
I'd like to see Gay attempt at least one 400m race - I can see him churning out a sub-45.00, not sure why I would want to see him do a 400m though - just to see how he would do, and where he would be placed in the 100 / 200 / 400 combined all-time ranking

I really wanna see Gay vs. Powell vs. Carter vs. Spearmon in the duece though ... that would probably be the race of the year. Powell has untapped 200 potential [19.90 with an easy bend, easing-off at 190m / he also has some 20.0s & 20.1s from the past which coulda easily been faster with better conditions or better tactics from Powell] - I doubt we'd see that race though, coz the BIG $$$ are in the 100 ...


My only reservation with Gay in the 400 is stride pattern !!! He's a high turnover guy, relatively speaking, and that usually makes it tough in the 400 ... Though guys like Jaime Balch and Derek Mills did quite well ...
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AM_Runner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Conway - I knew it was a bit fuzzy on what that positive was. Thanks for the explaination.
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