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Training Talk
Paul owes us a training update...
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Dan
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first week we're without a meet scheduled at this time, and the second week is our district meet 3 hours away.

Dan
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Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is becoming rather redundant, but Paul once again ran straight cutdowns. 5x1000 on partially soggy barkdust, ~400 jog recovery. Target pace was 3:54, but most of the group went too slow on the first one.

4:08 4:00 3:58 3:53 3:50 (3:58 avg -> 19:52)

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Training with Dan's XC squad on Mondays has been very productive for me.

I did skip the race on July 4th. Besides the Mon training with Dan, my hard days will include a medium to long tempo run on a very flat bike path at 7:40 - 7:45 pace for 6-7 miles, or 3 x 2 miles in 15:00 half mile jog between. On the weekend I may do a medium aerobic run on a much hillier course followed by hill repeats. The bike path is marked with half mile posts. All my training is done alone except for Moday, which is one of the reasons that workout is going so well.
Also doing some treadmill running. I came up with the idea to do strides on a treadmill a few months ago and have dicovered other people have done this, too. Why hasn't anyone mentioned this before! You have to be careful and have your wits about you. Once you start getting up to some pretty respectable speeds you'll find your running cadence (turnover) is really rockin'.
A typical workout will be:
5 min warmup at 5.5 mph
5 min at 6.0 every other min toe running
2.5 min at 7.5 mph with 30 secs at 6.0, x 6 times
2:20 at 7.5 mph and 8% incline, 4:40 at 6.0 and back to 0.5% incline.
Strides: 30 secs at 8 mph, then 8.5, 9, 9.5, 10, 10.5. 90 secs at 6.0 after each one. I've gone up to as high as 12.0 which is max on the gym's treadmill. I do the entire workout at 0.5% incline.

There are treadmill charts out there that say you should elevate the platform at least 1% to make up the loss of wind resistance, but the Precor website claims that a substantial goup of people are less efficient on a treadmill than running outside. I think I'm one of those. Running 8 min mile pace seems easier outside than on the treadmill.

I'm sure Dan will chime in on what group he fits into! Wink

Paul
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AM_Runner
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm I am working on my training plan I wonder if I should toss it up and see what you all think about what I am thinking for my upcoming XC/race season...
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm sure Dan will chime in on what group he fits into!

I'm sure everyone remembers my rants well enough for that to be unnecessary! Smile

Do you really remember all those breakdowns, or do you bring a laminated cheat sheet to the gym with you???

Quote:
On the weekend I may do a medium aerobic run on a much hillier course followed by hill repeats.

Emphasis on "much." More or less knowing the route, it's about as hilly an area as you'll find at near sea level. I was quite impressed when Paul described it to me last week.

Quote:
Hmm I am working on my training plan I wonder if I should toss it up and see what you all think about what I am thinking for my upcoming XC/race season...

By all means, go for it!

Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well we shall see when I am done wth it... better for you to all think I am nuts than for me to put it down and prove it... haha

Interesting workout for the strides paul has...

Do you just keep cranking it up or do you go each hard 30 sec bout with an easy one and just go faster each time?
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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AM:
The key is the 90 secs recovery at 6.0 mph after each. That prevents any serious acidosis from occuring. I have done a modified version of that treadmill workout as a 2nd workout of the day. It takes 34 min and covers 3.8 miles, and includes the strides. It hasn't hurt a scheduled hard workout the next day, either.
When I discussed this w/o with Dan, earlier, he had a question about the ability of the treadmill to reach proper velocity quickly. Lets say I start the strides on the even minute ( 30 sec on, 90 sec off ). I will start accelerating the treadmill 5 sec before the minute. That way, I am spending the full 30 secs at "speed".
Getting close to a peak race, I could vary the recovery and make this a lactate tolerance kind of workout. One could do 2 or 3 full sets of strides and only take 30 secs recovery between strides and maybe up to 10 min between sets. You'd have to really concentrate on balance, form and relaxation during the fast portions because the recovery time would be so short. I am just speculating on this kind of workout.
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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This last Saturday, I ran the full length of the Terwilliger portion of the Cascade Runoff, then finished up with 4 x 600 hills. All in all it totaled 11.2 miles, my first 11+ miles workout of the year, and probably only my 4th into double figures.
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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a good treadmill chart:

http://www.trinewbies.com/run_treadmill_chart.asp
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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer Micah's and Graeme's question:
I've been in 2 races this year, 5K on April 30, and 10K June 4th.
The 5K was in 21:25, 10K in 44:19. Both kind of disappointing.
In the 10K, I actually had some hamstring cramping issues during miles 4 and 5. Covered those 2 miles in 14:49 Embarassed . The only bonus was, I won my age group. I trained through both events. Two days before the 10K, I did a hard run followed by 2 sets of 200, 400, 600 hill runs. Not exactly tapering.
My training this year has had its fits and starts. I just lacked motivation. I took 2 full weeks off in March, and 10 days off during the really hot weather after the 10K. Getting a better handle on my base training and now going down to Salem on Mondays has helped immensely.
I am seriously thinking of entering a 5K this Saturday to see where I've progressed to.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am seriously thinking of entering a 5K this Saturday to see where I've progressed to.

Art Fair? It's supposed to be blazing hot Saturday (up to 106), but at least the race is at 7:45 in the morning. Shouldn't have much time to warm up by then, and at least half of it will be in the shade.

Have you added up your weekly mileage lately? You've gotten several 8-10 mile days down here in addition to your long runs up there.

That's a useful treadmill chart, although I want to see one with conversions for how a tailwind counteracts the alleged air resistance factor...

Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds like a real nice workout for a treadmill and being that your last workout that I tried from you worked so well I may give it a try - although it probably won't be for a while I generally avoid the treadmill like the plague. But it sounds like a workout that could actually be fun. Up until now the only ones I have done that for are bearble are tempo type runs where you run 20-30 minutes on and easy at the beginning and end and a few Fartlek typ eruns where the pace also varies. I basically run outside no matter what. Serious ice is the only thing that usually forces me on the treadmill... But I am thinking I really need to do some cross training I haven't even been in the gym since February so maybe I can work in some treadmill miles in with the core exercizing that I need to do...

I will let you know how it goes
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Micah Ward
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, those aren't bad times at all. I forget your age but I would expect those to age grade out to some respectable times. And you walked away with hardware! Can't feel bad about that.

Are the hamstrings well?
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Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today's workout didn't go quite as well as planned... It was supposed to cool off to mid 80's today (100-105 the past three days) with a workout temp of 76-78, but it was more like 96 and everyone struggled mightily. Paul ran his four 800's in 3:00, 3:08, 3:07, 3:04, with a ~2:40 jog recovery. He then came back and ran another 3:04 for the championship round of the workout after an 800 jog.

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it was quite warm, even at 10 AM. I was happy with the consistency, though the 1st one was a bit too fast. We all wanted to throw the towel in at that point, but the "Taskmaster" would have none of that.
My key workouts the past week: I already mentioned 2 Saturday's ago w/o and Dan posted last Monday's w/o. Wednesday I did some moderately hard tempo running on the Sellwood bike path. 2 mile warmup followed by 2 x 2 miles in 15 min, half mile jog after each. Then dropped down to 2 x 1 1/2 miles in 11:15, half mile jog after each. I could have eeked out 4 x 2 miles, but the temp was approaching mid 80's, and I think it was prudent to drop the 1/2 mile at tempo for the last two. It was another 11+ mile workout with 7 of them at 7:30 pace.
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