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Training Talk
Advice on training needed please
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Micah Ward
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul emailed me a great article on how slow running improves the development of mitochandria and helps move your lactate threshold. Basically when you get past all the science it is the old standy of running long slow runs to build the aerobic base and then introduce speedwork to sharpen the speed. If you want to get that one from Paul it is an interesting read.

There have been some great debates on these (and other) forums about the endurance first and speed next theory as opposed to introducing speedwork at the start of your training. The bottom line is that we are all an experiment of one.

I suggest you pick up a copy of The Lore of Running by Dr. Timothy Noakes. It has a ton of information about training to include sample training plans of some of the all time greats in the history of running.

Some of the common elements of a lot of them though are the weekly or biweekly long run, a tempo type run and some shorter interval type workouts. One thing I did notice though is that with a few exceptions, the longer the racing distance the less interval work.

I've also read about a high school coach in California named Jack Farrell who won several state XC championships by simply having his runners run 4-5 miles at a pace 45 seconds faster than race pace. Same workout every day and when race times got faster so did the training paces.

That is probably a very rambling and disjointed answer but at least there is some food for thought.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Like you, I love to race. Just don't put a lot of high expectations on the racing right now.

That's the problem. The love of racing and high expectations sort of go hand in hand. Rather than lower the expectations and risk hurting that love, I think it's better to step away from racing until the time is right.

Dan
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, I think the excitement to race takes away from the necessary training build-up. Without the training, it's unlikely the racing results will be satisfying, so you've basically got a horse before the cart situation.

Dan
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S_Fox
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thankyou both that does give me alot to think about and my next race isn't for 2 weeks so gives me a bit of time to improve.
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Shaun Fox
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S_Fox
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also I am not quite sure what a Tempo run is, what is it exactly?
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An example of a tempo run would be 10 minutes at regular pace, 20 minutes at a faster pace (say, 30 seconds per mile slower than race pace), and 10 minutes at regular pace (all continuous). Or, you might shorten the middle tempo portion to 10 minutes and have it be at race pace. Either way, you're working on extending the amount of time you can maintain a higher intensity while still getting a decent overall volume.

Dan
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Micah Ward
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan and I probably have a different view on the racing question. I love the atmosphere and camradrie and will race even when I am not in optimum shape. In fact, I haven't been in optimum shape in about 100 years. Very Happy

For example, I ran a half marathon and a 12K earlier this year which were basically training runs. But those runs helped me turn around and set two age group 10K prs on back to back weekends just a month later. Sure I could have run the 13.1 and 7.4 miles alone as training runs and saved the entry fees but it just wouldn't have felt the same. And besides, my daughter was 3rd female at the HM. I would have missed that!

Ward's Worthless Opinion is that it is ok to use a race as a training run. The key (for you young guys) is knowing when to race a race and when to hold back and just enjoy the atmosphere while you train through it.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difference, as I see it, is that Micah uses races as a supplement to training while Shaun is looking at getting back to where he was previously. The latter leads to high expectations and takes away from training in such a truncated schedule.

Dan
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S_Fox
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all, Okay I have my next 5K Race at 7.30pm tonight, however it is one of the hottest days ever here in the UK and is currently 35C/95F where I live and is likely to be around 30C/86F at 7.30pm and its very humid. Any advice on precautions I should take? also I have a club handicap Race tomorrow aswell which is over a 4 mile course and it will only be slightly cooler then.
I want to run both Races but I am concerned about the effect doing two Races in two days in extreme heat will have on me.
I am 24 and healthy and my fitness is coming along I should be okay right?

Thanks
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go out a bit slower than normal so you can gauge how your body is responding to the heat. And stay well hydrated throughout the day so you aren't playing catch-up at the last minute.

Dan
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S_Fox
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just got back from My 5K Race, The heat wasn't as bad as I expected as there was a good breeze and the course was mostly shaded in woodlands and around lakes. My time was 19:43, which is what I thought it may be. I am just glad I broke 20 minutes and hope to improve. I went off slow as it was hot and finished the last Kilometre stronger.

1k=4:02 (4:02)
2k=7:52 (3:50)
3k=11:55 (4:03)
4k=16:02 (4:07)
5k= 19:43 (3:41)

I have a club handicap race tomorrow but I will take that easy and my next 5K Race is in 2 weeks where I will be hoping to beat 19:43. Time to start adding some fartlek and intervals to my training.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done! It always feels much better when you're strong at the end of the race, especially when you're unsure how you'll handle the conditions. Can't ask for much better than those splits.

Dan
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johnlvs2run
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice improvement. I think racing a 5k every two weeks is fine. Since you are doing that I wouldn't do any tempo runs, unless maybe after a good warmup running 5x 1k going up to 83% effort and no higher. Most importantly though I'd do a lot of easy running at no higher than 70% and especially on hills to strengthen your legs. Personally I like doing a good amount at race pace but not going hard. The more easily you can run at race pace in practice the better and then more capacity to run faster in the races.
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S_Fox
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the link to the results of the latest 5K i did:

http://thorney_running_club.members.beeb.net/5and3kresults2006.xls
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Shaun Fox
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S_Fox
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just an update on how my trainings going. Over the last 3 weeks I have ranged from 20-30 miles a week, building a base so I can get working on getting those race times down. I have started incorporating some speed work now. Tonight I ran at my local club and had a really good fartlek session there with the lads at the club. I can feel my fitness coming along and I am hoping the times in my upcoming races will reflect this.
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