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Fantasy Track & Field League
Helpful hint(s) for the 2005 Fantasy T&F League
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VIPAM
Junior Varsity
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Joined: 08 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:37 pm    Post subject: Maybe better luck next year (sniff, SOB, sniff) Reply with quote

Dan

Hello to you and all my brother and sisters of the running world. I know I finished in the top 10 but I honestly look at this year as a failure for me in the Fantasy League (I had hoped to win but no less than top 5). Well I fell short of my goal but congratulations to the winner!

Great job Dan and all that helped you with the Fantasy League. In my opinion its one of the best free Fantasy Games on the internet.

LivingForTheJoyRunning

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Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I can say is...

Smile

Dan
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Conway
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was FUN again as usual !!!! GREAT job ...
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TheGlyde
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can always try to tweak it this way or that, but any little issues dont really take away from enjoying the game.

I suspect youre just trying to tweak it so i dont keep kicking you... haha kidding.

The best change would be if you could change your roster between meets... a lot of people i roped into the comp lost interest late because none of their athletes were competing and they couldnt change... however being from a programming background myself i know thatd be a huge job to change the fundamental bounds of the comp, and that you will probably wish id never mentioned the idea. Wink

J
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I suspect youre just trying to tweak it so i dont keep kicking you...

Damn, I was hoping to be less transparent. Rolling Eyes

Yes, changeable rosters are high on my wish list, but like you said, the logistics are daunting. The most workable solution I see is to offer a one-time, one-athlete switch where you can drop one athlete and replace them with one lesser priced one. It would be easy enough to track in the database if that one allotted change had been made. The challenge is how to handle the scoring pre/prior the switch... Presumably, you'd only get the new athlete's points from that meet forward, but if earlier meets needed to be re-scored for whatever reason, it'd need some manner of keeping those roster changes straight.

Dan
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Conway
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see a need to score the athlete prior to the switch because you never had them before that ... The switch would be made based on previous performance hoping the athlete would continue to do that while on your roster ....

Perhaps the bests way to do this would be to allow a midseason adjustment ... Then to score the contest in two halves !!! Keep half one intact ... Run the second half of the contest as a new data base, with each individual simply carrying their first half score into the new data base ... I think that would keep it fairly clean and easy to do ... Would then be like setting the contest up a second time and letting it run "automatically" as before ...
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, that gives me an idea or two... I'm thinking everything could be left the same except for Rosters table (database). There would be a pre/post changeover table, with the pre not getting changed at all. When adjustments are made, that player's entire roster gets copied over to the post table, and their User table entry gets updated to reflect which Roster table to pull from.

[The big challenge I'd need to think through is what that does to scoring/sorting/summary stats efficiency. It could be a nightmare to tie together.]

If that worked, we could then explore taking it even further, like having a separate Rosters table assigned for each meet and the ability to make one (or whatever we set the limit at) adjustment prior to each meet, sort of like Fantasy Football leagues that let you select active rosters for each game.

Dan
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm copying this over from the Meet #10 thread, since this is more the place for ongoing discussion of potential add-ons or adjustments:

Quote:
Of the top 20 scoring athletes, the event totals are:

100M - 5
100W - 4
1500M - 3
800M - 2
800W - 2
400W - 2
5000M - 1
5000W - 1

The sprints obviously fared best and the distances the worst, which might mean we should do some weighting of the events (selection prices) next year. The 400 probably would have ranked higher if it had Golden League status, as it wasn't contested in all our meets.

Looking at the top-20 again, sorted by Score/Cost ratio, we get:

800W - 6
800M - 4
100M - 3
100W - 3
1500M - 2
5000M - 1
5000W - 1
400W - 0

The 800 was clearly the value event, with the womens' being helped by two big factors I can think of: Mutola's dropoff (thus people lower in last year's rankings being able to step up) and the big improvement of the Russians competitively. The men's looks to be a bit of a fluke, with Kirwa and Reed pretty much coming out of nowhere and Bucher being so inexpensive that his value ranking is very high. I had him in and out of my early roster but didn't think he'd compete... Again, the distances and non-GL events suffer in the value analysis.

Dan
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a challenge for some aspiring Fantasy contributor...

http://www.iaaf.org/downloads/scoringtables/index.html

(Have fun reading sideways...)

Look through the men's and women's distance tables (one for each) and see if you can't come up with a multiplier or more advanced equation to get comparable 3k and 3k steeple times. If it can be attained, we could add the steeples in next year.

Typically, 30-40 seconds is added to a flat 3k time to get the equivalent steeple time for any given athlete, but we need something more exact than that...

Dan
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Conway
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
Hmm, that gives me an idea or two... I'm thinking everything could be left the same except for Rosters table (database). There would be a pre/post changeover table, with the pre not getting changed at all. When adjustments are made, that player's entire roster gets copied over to the post table, and their User table entry gets updated to reflect which Roster table to pull from.

[The big challenge I'd need to think through is what that does to scoring/sorting/summary stats efficiency. It could be a nightmare to tie together.]

If that worked, we could then explore taking it even further, like having a separate Rosters table assigned for each meet and the ability to make one (or whatever we set the limit at) adjustment prior to each meet, sort of like Fantasy Football leagues that let you select active rosters for each game.

Dan


That's sort of what I had in mind ... Though I was looking at it being simpler by just having a "mid season" adjustment ....

Would make stats gathering a bit of a mess ... But the quesiton is which would be more useful to folk ... Having the stats done for them ... OR having the ability to make changes ... My guess is the ability to make change would rank much higher on folks lists !!!!! Wink
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm starting to slap together some code and think through the logistics, and it's actually beginning to look doable... Certainly more interesting than what I was working on before. Smile It'll make scoring of results a tad slower, but probably not enough of a difference to pose server load problems.

The biggest issue I see is the cumulative stats, specifically athlete popularity. Doing so with separate Rosters tables for each meet would be pretty tricky. The two solutions I see are:

1) Query each of the 9 Rosters_* tables (one for changes prior to each meet), loop through all the results, and sum them up for each athlete, since prior Rosters_(n-1) is cleared for a given user after they've updated to Rosters_(n).

2) Break the stats down to athlete popularity by meet, which potentially is more interesting to see ebb and flow throughout the season, and have a sum column.

I'm thinking with the separate Rosters_* table for each meet, it'll actually greatly simplify tracking which data to use in case re-scoring earlier meets is needed. I've got a 0/1 flag for each potential roster switch; whichever column is the latest to be flagged a 1, that's the Rosters_* table to pull from for scoring that week's meet. It almost sounds too simple...

Dan
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Conway
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you're going with roster changes each meet ??? Would it not be more interesting to only change once during the season ??? Though it might be interesting to see how much people tinker with their rosters ...

My only fear is that some people might get smart and start perusing start lists and maek changes based on start lists which then puts everyone basically even ... And part of the fun is in the predictive quality of the game - as in how well one can predict what their rosters can do ...

Never played fantasy football or baseball or anything ... Anyone know how often they are allowed to make changes ???
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TheGlyde
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, i dont check for one day and up pop ten messages. With fantasy basketball at least theres a trade deadline usually about half way through the season. up until then you can make all the moves you like, but once you hit the trade deadline youre set with that roster the rest of the way.

Maybe this could do something along those lines, 10 meets and you can change your roster up to the 5th meet then your have had plenty of time to tinker and have some idea on who is competing, whos not and what shape they are in. Then you need to decide on your final team to tackle the finishing meets.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking something along the lines of limit it to one change per meet and it could only be for a lesser priced athlete, unless you have unspent cash on hand, then maybe it could be for a higher priced one. With just one change per meet, it would be tough to overhaul an awful roster...

Programatically, it would be pretty easy to make the one change per meet limit. Using the R* fields like I outlined above, as soon as that meet's field is flagged to 1, no additional changes can be made. All I would need to do is add some new roster selection routines that are more limited than the regular ones, allowing only one athlete to be selected for removal and one to be added, which would then set the flag. Just don't screw up with your one selection! Wink

Dan
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TheGlyde
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah i think ont roster tweak per meet sounds like a workable solution. Then you could put some time and effort into figuring out who was letting your team down and finding possible replacements.
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