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800m potential
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taake
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:04 am    Post subject: 800m potential Reply with quote

I have run some track sessions:
5*600m 3 min rec 1.44 (spikes)
6*1000m 1,30 min rec 3.25
6*300m 2 min rec 45 sec (spikes)

What should I be able to run in the 800m?
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Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those workouts don't really mean anything to me as far as performance predictors... They're more along the lines of 1500m workouts.

One thing you can do is a near-all out 600m time trial, aiming for fairly even pace. Add about 34 seconds to that and there's your current 800m level.

Dan
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taakef
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I ran 1.27 on 600m some days ago. And I would like to know my 1500m potential. Thank you.
Ran an 4.30 1500 today. Did not feel great, just ok.
I think that my training times are better than my racing times.
I have ran 2.08.50 on 800m this year. Am I overtrained, burned out??
The 600 test was taken 3 days after the 800m,
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds like you're doing way too many race and time trial efforts too close together, so yes, you likely are over-trained.

The 600 would predict a 2:01 or so, but that doesn't tell you much about your 1500 potential other than plugging the 800 time into an equivalency calculator.

Dan
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Indeurr
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:35 am    Post subject: Kosmin I and Kosmin II Reply with quote

Kos'min_I and Kos'min_II*** are used to predict the potential over 800 meters and 1500 meters.
In Kosmin_I, used to predict the potential over 800 meters, you are supposed to run twice for exactly 60 seconds with a 3 minutes recovery period in between. After you run, you measure the total distance covered. The tables and calculators should be at the http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/kosmin.htm web site.
My guess, I do not remember the tables, is that running 816 meters total on the Kosmin_I would put you at the potential level of running 800 meters in 2 minutes flat. I believe that the coversion is not linear.
My last Kosmin_I went O.K., if I remebr correctly, I did 640 meters that put me at the potential of running 800 meters in 141 seconds or 2:21 (I am certain that I got as far as 635 meters, and that I had to slow myself down over the first 60--seconds leg of the test. On the first one, I did about 320 meters.)

' ***- stands for a soft sign in Polish and is writen over a letter -- the name Kosmin is Ruthenian (Russian, Ukrainian, or Belarusian) and is writen with a special soft sign after the Cyrilic s. The soft sign in Slavic languages is not the Spanish n with the tilda above it. The Slavic soft sign is like 'alif in the Semitic languages. It is half-a-vowel. Let's look at "ee" sound; the sound is "eee" in American English "yeast" and "eeee" in Dutch Dajksta (check spelling), but in Slavic laguages it is half-the-sound of "ee" that is in writing, when Latin alphabet is used, like in Polish, is attached to a proceeding letter, and makes the letter softer: n to n', s to s', c to c' etc. -- again in Polish the sign is above the letter not next to it / after it.
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Indeurr
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

taakef wrote:
Ok, I ran 1.27 on 600m some days ago. And I would like to know my 1500m potential. Thank you.
Ran an 4.30 1500 today. Did not feel great, just ok.
I think that my training times are better than my racing times.
I have ran 2.08.50 on 800m this year. Am I overtrained, burned out??
The 600 test was taken 3 days after the 800m,


___Is your 300 meters PB 45 seconds? This would be consistent with the Kosmin_I since your SB is 2:08.50 over 800 meters.
___Let analyse it. 3/4 of a minute for 300 meters in a PB race. Let assume that by now, you got good enough to run very near that with a 3 -- three minutes recovery period or 49 seconds over 300 meters twice. Now, 60/49 * 300 * 2 should yeild 60/49 * 600 or 3600 divided by 49 equals 736 meters total.
___736 meters, according to the Kosmin_I, should yeild a reslut close to 2:10 or 130 seconds over 800 meters.
_____________________________________________________________pecunia indeurr indeur dekolak
Kolaczek Hornet Drago former_Scooter_69
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Calculation:


__735.6 etc.__
3600 : 49
343
___
_170
_147
____
_230
_196
____
__340
__etc.
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Indeurr
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Traditional Kosmin Test:

http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/kosmin.htm

Kosmin Test for athletes running 800 m in over 2 minutes:

http://www.friidrott.se/veteran/dokument/dunton/2004/trainin43.html

Next step: creating Kosmin Test for slower athletes for 1500 m.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boy, those tests sound almost as tough as just running the races themselves. Confused

Dan
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Indeurr
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan -- you are right! However, they supposed to predict your potential and not you present ability.
800 m is almost as meticulous as 100 m, from the coaches perspective. It is impossible to be a good 100 m or 800 m racer without a coach. Coaches, most especially in dash events, are very picky. It takes near-insane analytical mind to coach a great egomaniac of a dasher (this is main reason why the relay teams made of the fastest 100 m and 200 m sprinters so often fail to win the 4 x 100 m relay competition).
In Wallace’s (if I did not forget his name) Track and Field Coach’s Survival Guide (if I did not forget the title for the manual--book), he emphasizes that in training a 100 m dasher, one must look, amongst other things, for the part of the race where his or her dasher looses the most time: it is nuts: measure time of the start from the blocks, and of each 10 meters after that – preferably tape the athlete, and see what is going on in the slow motion.
My self, I am slow, but I can run much better 60 meters than 100 meters because I do slow down a lot over the next 40 meters, but after that I do remain consistent up to 300 meters.
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
Those workouts don't really mean anything to me as far as performance predictors... They're more along the lines of 1500m workouts.

One thing you can do is a near-all out 600m time trial, aiming for fairly even pace. Add about 34 seconds to that and there's your current 800m level.

Dan


Umm, you mentioned they are along the lines of 1500meters. How are they, 400 meters first off is just way too short of a distance to train with for the mile or 1500....
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the volume is high enough and the rest period short enough, 400's can be a very good predictor of 1500m ability.

Dan
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