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100m PR
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X King
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 11:15 am    Post subject: 100m PR Reply with quote

I just thought that I would let you guys know that I done my PR in the 100m.
I competed in a meet with our school on Wednesday,I came 4th in my race in a time of 12.93s(Hand-Timed).
The plyo's worked(thanks guys!!!), and I am getting stronger everyday.
I just wanted to thank you guys for the advice about my age, taking things easing and enjoying Track and Field.
Thanks again...
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done! Weren't you around 13.4 previously?

Dan
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X King
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thankyou Dan, I was at 13.5 previously.
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Conway
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good job ... NIce improovement .. Keep up the good work ...
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Justin
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats on the PB X-King, glad the training's working

I can't help but pull you up on quoting hand times to hundredths though...tut tut, that's a no-no!

13.0 it is. Let us know when you make the breakthrough to 12-point.

FYI the world age 14 best is 10.35 by a Chinese kid last year. The UK age 14 best is, I believe, 10.93 by none other than Mark Lewis-Francis. I ran 12.7, which is a target I suspect you will easily beat!

Justin
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I can't help but pull you up on quoting hand times to hundredths though...tut tut, that's a no-no!

I was wondering who would be the first to call him on that. Smile

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wondering, too, but it was going to have to be someone with more clout than me!!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. I'll settle for 12.9s.
What's wrong with Hand-Timing to the hunderedths???...
By the way I'm 5ft 4inches, and I weigh 8st 9lbs.
I don't know what that converts to in pounds for you American's with your damn metric system!!!

And my I have my eyes firmly set on the 10.35s World Age-14 Year old best! LOL! Laughing
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Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hand timing isn't considered accurate to even the tenth, let alone the hundreth.

Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

X-King,

Hand timing is, even in the hands of experienced timekeepers (of whom there are very few - you will encounter none below County champs level) extremely inaccurate and almost invariably 'fast'.

The reason for this is as follows:

The timekeeper presses the start button when they see the flash from the gun (NB NOT the smoke as this takes a variable amount of time to emerge and NOT the sound as this takes time to travel to the ear of the timekeeper). It takes the human body roughly 0.25 to react to a visual or aural stimulus, ie the process of hearing, interpreting, sending 'push' instructions to the fingers and the physical action of moving the finger. Thus, the timekeeper is around 0.25 'late' in starting vs an auto-timer, which starts the instant the gun goes.

Obviously the exact delay varies hugely depending on the reactions of the timekeeper, how closely they are paying attention, how tired they are, how experienced they are and so on - that 0.25 is an average which of course covers quicker and slower reactions. Already you can see how easily variability can get into timing.

The problem of the delay at the start is exacerbated by the tendency of timekeepers to 'anticipate' the finish, ie start the process of pressing the button just early enough that you press stop the instant the athlete crosses the line. The registered time is thus 0.25 fast, since there was a delay at the start but not the end. Good timekeepers know to wait until they actually see the athlete cross the line. The delay in pressing the button after the eye receives the information thus cancels out the delay at the start, giving a roughly accurate time.

However, few timekeepers do this. Thus, the convention is to add 0.24 to a hand time to get a rough idea of its auto-timing equivalent. ALL hand times are treated with suspicion by statisticians, especially in the 100m. Hand times and auto times should never be combined in the same list and should always be separated - the easiest way to do this is to quote hand times to one decimal place and auto-times to two. And if you have a stopwatch that registers to hundredths you ALWAYS round it up, not down. In fact the timekeeper shouldn't even record or tell you the time to two decimal places. Your '12.93' = 13.0!

You can see from this that the margin for error in hand timing is so huge that to quote to hundredths is simply statistically absurd. The mis-reporting of hand-timed races to two decimal places is the bane of a sprint statistician's life. Texas and Nigeria are the world's two worst places for such mis-reporting.

So, your 13.0 hand time would be considered roughly equivalent to an auto-time of 13.24. That 10.35 is an auo-time and roughly equates to a 10.1 hand time. So keep up the plyometrics and you've just 2.9 secs to go!

BTW Don't take all this too seriously, your PB is legitimate and congrats are due. If you ever get to an auto-timed meet you may find your times are a little slower though! Above county level timekeepers in the UK are actually quite good. But don't trust your teachers unless they have read and studied the above!

Justin

[Edited a couple of times for clarity, sorry it got a bit long!]


Last edited by Justin on Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:15 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And another thing....

Americans have no clue about metric!! Conway and Dan etc can do metric because they are track fans but even they instinctively think of jumps and throws in feet and inches first. This is a real problem for track and field in the US, as the public cannot relate to the normal currency of the sport. It also leads to absurdities like collegians running 1600m and 55m rather than the mile and 60y.

Go to Europe and ask about feet, inches, miles and fahrenheit and you'll get much the same blank look as if you asked in an Alabama shop for a kilo of apples...as in so many things, the UK is somewhere between the two positions...

That said, stones is a UK-specific measure. 1 stone = 14 pounds, so X-King is 5'4" and 121 pounds. I'd say that makes you not especially tall but quite well built, am I right Mr 13.0?

Justin
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Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say Justin pretty well covered everything. Smile Despite being a track fan and a Canadian, I'm still pretty much useless when it comes to field events in metric units. Just not a number I can relate to...

Dan
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X King
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justin wrote:

That said, stones is a UK-specific measure. 1 stone = 14 pounds, so X-King is 5'4" and 121 pounds. I'd say that makes you not especially tall but quite well built, am I right Mr 13.0???


Yes Justin you have got me off to a tee.
Thanks for pointing out the facts and figures as usual Mr. Clouder... Very Happy
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Conway
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can convert from metric to feet and inches pretty easily ... But I never think first of metric ... I've been around track long enough that I know what the metric measurements equate to ... But Justin is correct in that conversion to the metric system hurt the sport here quite a bit ..

Justin is also correct about hand timing ... Although I have to brag and say that I am usually within .02 of official times when I am at meets ... But as Justin stated the reason for this is that over the years I have become disciplined in starting and stopping the watch when I actually see the flash and the torso ... Not anticipating either one ... And on those occassions when I "miss" one or the other, my timing is considerably off !!! I have been to high school and college meets where hand timing is in force and find them to be as much as .5 off on sprint races !!!!
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have been to high school and college meets where hand timing is in force and find them to be as much as .5 off on sprint races !!!!

In other words, the difference between world class and near elite high schoolers...

Dan
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