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My pick for the 4 greatest sprinters (100 MY)
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Dan
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No one else ran anything like 9.91w (on dirt no less) by age 21 (right Justin?) ...

Perhaps Montgomery? Didn't he run 9.96 on grass or something at age 19, albeit on an allegedly shortly track?

Dan
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Conway
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Montgomery's reace was on a legitimate track if I am not mistaken ... Just measured short ... Still nothing compared to Hayes' run ... Took Tim several years to duplicate that performance legitimately ... Wasn't until the 97 National Championships actually ... And he lost that race to Mo !!!!! Rolling Eyes
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Dan
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it wasn't too far off on the clock, wasn't wind aided, was on a similarly non-optimal surface, and was done two years younger. That seems to be at least in the same ballpark...

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jeffh
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
Well, it wasn't too far off on the clock, wasn't wind aided, was on a similarly non-optimal surface, and was done two years younger. That seems to be at least in the same ballpark...

Dan


I read it was wind aided and the track was 3.7 centimeters too short and
the article didn't say anything about a "non-optimal surface."
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Conway
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim's race was run at Odessa CC in TExas ... On a legitimate track that was found ot have been measured short ... As well the wind gauge wasw found to have been illegally placed on the track .... 2nd and 3rd in that race were 9.98 and 10.03 ... So wasn't like he wasn't alone in teh too fast department !!! Wink
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Conway
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going back and looking at some of Tim's top races I noticed that in his 3 fastest races (his 3 sub 9.90's) he had the following

9.78 +2.0 wind
9.84 +2.0 wind
9.85 trailing Mo

Tim has yet to run under 9.90 without major assistance ... Rolling Eyes
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Justin
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hayes 10.06 in Tokyo would be in any top 5 all-time 100m performances, for sure. As jeff says it was on a chewed-up inside lane of a cinder track (the 20km walk had just finished). The best auto-time before then was 10.25 by Armin Hary - Enrique Figuerola equalled that coming second to Hayes.

Jim Hines improved Hayes' auto world best to 10.03 and then 9.95A 4 years later, but 10.06 remained the Olympic low altitude best until Carl Lewis beat it in 1984!

The 9.91w in the semi was heavily wind assisted (5.2m/s) but also on a cinder track. This was history's first ever auto-timed sub 10 performance and was unbeaten in Olympic competition until 1988 (Johnson 9.79) or if you prefer, 1996 (Bailey 9.84 etc).

These two are definitely landmark performances in the history of sprinting but are not alone enough to make Hayes the #1 when including competitions, longevity etc. I believe Hayes to be the most naturally gifted and naturally fast man to have stepped on a track in the IAAF era, but his carrer was too short for it to be considered the best ever.

Montgomery ran 9.96 at the JUCO champs in Odessa, Texas in 1994, at age 19, on a regular synthetic track. Odessa is 880m up and the wind was 1.7m/s - on the face of it, great conditions and a great run. But the wind guage was on the outside of the track, sheltered by the stand. And the race was said to be 99.96m, but it was then reported that this measurement had been taken from the front of the start line, not the back of it.

So, like MLF's 9.97 at the 2001 WC, Montgomery was denied the first sub 10 by a junior by a faulty wind guage. Both were probable w/a, but not by much and not for sure.

Justin
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jeffh
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justin wrote:

Montgomery ran 9.96 at the JUCO champs in Odessa, Texas in 1994, at age 19, on a regular synthetic track. Odessa is 880m up and the wind was 1.7m/s - on the face of it, great conditions and a great run. But the wind guage was on the outside of the track, sheltered by the stand. And the race was said to be 99.96m, but it was then reported that this measurement had been taken from the front of the start line, not the back of it.


Justin



I thought Odessa,Tx was 2,851 feet above sea level.

http://www.usachamber.com/odessa/statistics.asp
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Justin
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2,851 feet = 869m. Near enough to 880m I'd say - perhaps the stadium is up a small hill.

1 foot = 30.48cm; feet-metre conversion = (feet x 30.48)/100.

Justin
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jeffh
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right , I was thinking of something else..How much of a difference do you think running at altitute makes?
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Conway
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justin wrote:
Jim Hines improved Hayes' auto world best to 10.03 and then 9.95A 4 years later, but 10.06 remained the Olympic low altitude best until Carl Lewis beat it in 1984!
Justin


Actually wasn't that James Sanford's 10.02 in 1980 that beat Hayes low altitude record ...

On the topic of altitude, it seems to me that altitude is a great assistance ... Most athletes that set altitude PR's seem to have great difficulty matching it at seas level ... I believe the factor commonly given is around .1 sec of assistance .... Track and Field News Big Green Book has a aconversion chart for altitude races, but am not at home at the moment to consult it ...
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Justin
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was referring to Olympic competition, in which Hayes' 10.06 wasn't bettered until 1984 and his 9.91w not until 1988/1996.

Hayes' 10.06 was beaten as a world low altitiude best by Hines' 10.03, which was in turn beaten by Sanford's 10.02.

Justin
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Conway
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah ... I should have noticed ... You are correct .. What do your stats show regarding altitude ???
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