Run-Down Forums

Paul · Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 3:46 pm Post subject:

I would tend to agree with your reasoning plus your weight factor comment. But MJ was in great shape during that 3 month stretch; 19.6 and 19.3 . And wasn't his Olympic run done from lane 3 ??

Using Charlie's reasoning, he could have gone through the 1st 200 faster than anyone before him and still be the slowest vs his speed reserve. I see low 42's as a possibility, maybe 42.3x, somewhere in that range.

Paul

Dan · Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:15 pm Post subject:

Paul · Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:31 pm Post subject:

I agree. It would also be interesting to speculate what Ben Johnson could have done in the 200 by 1990-1992 if he hadn't tested positive in '88. Of course, MJ's 19.32 is so Beamonesque, we may not see an improvement on that for 25+ years.

Conway · Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:47 pm Post subject:

couple of things ... First off Francis' math is shaky ... He adds two hand timed 200s together and then only compensates by using one automatic timing factor (.24) as well as his own 3.5 factor ... Seems to me 3 "hand times" require the need for 3 "auto adjustments" .. Which takes us to 42.42 ...

Secondly, Irregardless of the shape MJ was in he never approached anything resemblinlg his Atlanta times away from that track ... It is clearly known that that track was the hardest fastest legal track ever built ... And if you look at the results from both the US trials and the Olympics you will see that most sprinters there ran about .3/.4 better than their "PRs" ... ie best other races ... I said most as obviously there were sprinters there that were not ready, had injuries etc ... But the fastest 200 meter sprinting in history (rounds, finals, etc) occured in those two meets ... So factoring that in as well now takes us to somewhere around 42. 82 ... Suprising close to the fastest split on record !!!!

Finally to say that MJ could run anywhere near the 41s is ridiculous ... When you look at MJs best races he is remarkably close to even pace sprinting ... One thing MJ was was smart and he knew that he could not go out incredibly fast and maintain it !!!! Or even finish strongly ... He knew his limitations ... His strength was in his physical make up (long torso short legs) ... Michael was built for efficiency ... Which is why he was near impossible to run down if he beat you off the turn !!! Its also why he was so remarkably consistent time wise in the 400 !!! Sub 43 out of the blocks would have been possible but very difficult ... Its not like he jsut had an extra gear waiting to be used ... He was pushing it each time out - but his efficient stride pattern made it look less stressful ... Quincy Watts has a totally different stride pattern but was also efficient and made sub 44 running look easy ... He too could have pushed the 43 sec barrier if he had stayed in the sport a little longer ... But again it would have been difficult ... But talk of sub 42 is lunacy at this point ... Rolling Eyes

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X King · Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 7:36 am Post subject:

Dan · Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 10:01 am Post subject:

Humor is always appreciated ... but Ben tested positive for stuff that couldn't have gone through his system and tested clean for years for stuff he admitted to taking, so Francis certainly did his drug masking job well.

Dan
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Conway · Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 12:25 pm Post subject:

And therein lies the irony of the whole situation ... Francisw did hsi job exceedinly well ... Well he and Jaime Astaphan (his physician) ... Ben was caught for other reasons ... Wink

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Dan · Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 1:46 pm Post subject:

Conway · Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:06 pm Post subject:

Have never heard any mopre about Astaphan ... Last I heard he was on St Kits !!!
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Dan · Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:16 pm Post subject:

Ok then, know of any elite athletes vacationing there? Wink

Dan
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Conway · Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 9:14 pm Post subject:

Actually Kim Collins represents St Kits and Nevis !!! LOL ... Not implying anything just stating a funny fact ...

Unless Astaphan was actively involved the entire time, I doubt his "expertise" be would of much use ... The sport has moved so far since then ... I would imagine that the world of doping is light years ahead of where it was during Ben's hey day ... Which only means that getting caught should be a near impossibility ... Neutral

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Dan · Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 9:32 pm Post subject:

Ah yes, I had forgotten about Collins. Smile

It would seem doping and testing has moved forward too much in the past 15 years to be in the know without being actively involved. Then again, some of the hot drugs back then are still undetectable...

Dan
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Conway · Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 9:54 pm Post subject:

True some are still undetectable ... But I would think that there are a lot of things one would want that are fairly new ... Requiring current knowledge ...

I wonder how many "teams/squads" have their own physicians these days ??? Or "nutritionists" ???
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Dan · Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 10:06 pm Post subject:

I would phrase the question a bit differently... I wonder how many teams would admit to having such? There are very valid and legitimate reasons for doing so, but we know all too well the public perception would be along the lines of Tim and Marion training with Francis...

Dan
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Conway · Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 10:36 pm Post subject:

Exactly ... Hypocrisy personified ... Don't you love it ???
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