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Hammer Varsity
Joined: 17 Jan 2002 Posts: 385 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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You just have to keep pushing that button. The reason it's "Magic" is the simplicity of the idea and the difficulty of the application. |
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Distance_Guru World Class
Joined: 09 Mar 2002 Posts: 1280 Location: Nebraska
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose that's about right. As opposed to the those who know don't tell, it's more like everyone knows but almost nobody does. Becuase after all it's a heck of a lot easier to talk about running a ton with high quaility and focusing on long term goals without getting hung up on short term ones than it is to actually go out and do it. _________________ Time is the fire in which we burn |
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Paul Olympic Medalist
Joined: 28 Apr 2002 Posts: 1610 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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JR, that's why I mentioned Serpentine because of your proximity to London. Horwill has been discussed in this Forum and is well thought of as is Martin and Coe.
Who is your coach and is he known outside of England much?? Also what is your weekly mileage?? The coaches in this Forum are quite knowledgeable and mileage is one of the indices they look at.
Paul |
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Distance_Guru World Class
Joined: 09 Mar 2002 Posts: 1280 Location: Nebraska
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Forgive my ignorance but what is Serpentine? I'm assuming it might be a running club or team; sort of like the US's Nike Farm Team. _________________ Time is the fire in which we burn |
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Paul Olympic Medalist
Joined: 28 Apr 2002 Posts: 1610 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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DG, Serpentine is a large London based running club of all abilities. Here is the link to their home page: http://www.serpentine.org.uk/.
Over on the right you will see a column titled "Quick Links". Three from the bottom you will see a link titled Coach Frank Horwill which brings you to a page with a short bio and titles of 72 articles, one of which coachd talked about in another thread.
Paul |
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Distance_Guru World Class
Joined: 09 Mar 2002 Posts: 1280 Location: Nebraska
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Paul. Although I don't have time to read those articles at the moment I have marked the Frank Horwill page on my favorties so expect to see some of my future post refer to those articles. _________________ Time is the fire in which we burn |
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Paul Olympic Medalist
Joined: 28 Apr 2002 Posts: 1610 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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I always knew there would be homework for me on this Forum!
And, DG, while your here, I've been meaning to ask you a couple of questions concerning your Christmas break training.
1) At what pace do you do the 50/50 killer drills.
2) What are the acceleration runs?
Paul |
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Distance_Guru World Class
Joined: 09 Mar 2002 Posts: 1280 Location: Nebraska
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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The 50-50 killer drills are run at what I call a controlled sprint, probably somewhere in the area of 400m race pace. The acceleration workout is pretty complicated I stole it strait out of the middle distance chapter from Vigils Road to the Top. _________________ Time is the fire in which we burn |
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Hammer Varsity
Joined: 17 Jan 2002 Posts: 385 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:51 am Post subject: |
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JR Here are a couple of little mathematical/training equations that I use to judge ability in runnners (including myself). They may or may not help you.
-If you can run 2/3 of the race distance (1000 meters in your case) @ goal speed (in a workout not a race) you can probably race the entire distance @ that speed.
-With that in mind I concentrate on intervals that are 1/3 of the race distance (race pace intervals). If you are unable to run 1/3 of the race distance @ your goal pace (first interval) then you might have set the bar too high. Early on perform the 1/3 intervals and allow full recovery. 1:3 if neccessary. As the year progresses cut down the recovery time and increase the reps.
-In your case that would be 3X500m w/1:3 recovery progressing to 6X500m w/1:0.5 recovery about a month from the goal race
-But of course you can not neglect the other aspects of 1500m training (Race pace training is only 1 of many speed zones you should be concentrating on) but of course your original question was about performance indicators.
-coachd had brought up Horwill's (400-800-300)X2 workout and Dan had brought up the 10X400m. |
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Dan Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999 Posts: 9334 Location: Salem, OR
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Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:37 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | If you can run 2/3 of the race distance (1000 meters in your case) @ goal speed (in a workout not a race) you can probably race the entire distance @ that speed. |
The mid-distance time trialling I have done has been more along the lines of 3/4 of race distance, but same idea. The difference in which is the best performance predictor for you probably comes down to whether you are a "workout king" or good racer...
Quote: | and Dan had brought up the 10X400m. |
12x400, actually. That last set of 4 would have felt a lot easier had it only consisted of 2! Although, the time I nailed the workout best (immediately before a 9 second 1500m PR), the last set was about 6 seconds faster than the average of the previous sets, and each of the 4 in that set was a cut down. Talk about hitting the zone.
Dan _________________ phpbb:include($_GET[RFI]) |
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coachd Water Boy
Joined: 09 Sep 2002 Posts: 72 Location: Out west
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Paul Olympic Medalist
Joined: 28 Apr 2002 Posts: 1610 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2003 9:59 am Post subject: |
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The predicted times seem fast to me. The worldar site is fascinating, though. And Brian McKenzie's site has a lot of info on it. I have not had the chance to spend as much time as I would like to at that site.
(coachd, I noticed you put 7 athletes on the RMAC all-academic team )
Paul _________________ Paul
"Gaunt is Beautiful" Cassidy's T-shirt |
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Hammer Varsity
Joined: 17 Jan 2002 Posts: 385 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2003 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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I don't like to use 400s to predict the mile. Repeat 400s are good for 1600m race pace but I have found that 800/1600 runners or even 400/800 runners can real off some fast 400s and not run good 1500/1600/mile times. I use 400s for 1600 race pace workouts but I find that runner's 600m (close to 1/3) repeat speeds to be better indicators of their 1600 speed.
Quote: | The mid-distance time trialling I have done has been more along the lines of 3/4 of race distance, but same idea. |
A lot of people use 1200m Time Trials for the 1600 or Mile. If a runner can run @ goal pace for the 1500 in practice they definatly can run 300 more meters (1500) @ that speed on race day.
I usually go by the 1/3 rule and round to the nearest common distance. (1600/3=533 round to 600. )(3200/3=1066 round to 1000) |
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JR Lurker
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 6 Location: Sussex, England
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Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2003 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone,
I know Frank very well as i am a member of the British Milers Club - Of which he was one of the co-founders and he is a great person who will always be willing to give you advice if you give him a call or write to him. My weekly milage is about 30-40mpw. This has only been at this level for a few months (i started to realise that i couldnt get by on my 15 mile wekks) I do two sessions on a track a week, another hard session, a longer run and then easy runs. I am a 800/1500 type runner. I have recently done a 12x400metre session with a minute recovery all in 65(+/-1second). I will do the 2x(400, 800, 300) session closer to the summer when i am peaking. I will just keep working hard for the time being and keep on improving. _________________ That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger |
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Dan Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999 Posts: 9334 Location: Salem, OR
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Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2003 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I have recently done a 12x400metre session with a minute recovery all in 65(+/-1second). |
Depending on recovery taken, that would indicate you are very close to sub-4 shape. Drop a second per by season's end and you should be right there.
Dan _________________ phpbb:include($_GET[RFI]) |
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