Run-Down Forums

Conway · Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 11:16 am Post subject:

I'm not sure what kind of thing it is ... But one knows when we have reached it ... Wink

... Question is how long does it take to get there ... Couldn't something similar to a stress test be utilized ??

Dan · Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 11:31 am Post subject:

Distance_Guru · Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 12:09 pm Post subject:

I tend not to think of pain in terms of predetermined threshold. Although, I have no doubt that some people are naturally better at taking all kinds of pain than others. Especially when it comes to pain associated with aerobic exertion I think that pain threshold is more about familiarity than about how tough you are. In other words it comes down to training and experience. If in training or in previous races you've seen spots, started to get tunnel vision, gotten those horrible cramps in your side, shoulder, or back, and felt the waves of nausea that come along with running very hard for a long time you're prepared for them and can deal with them much better than some else who might actually have a higher pain threshold than you, who hasn't experienced them as much.

I think the kind of test we need is for focus and determination. The kind of things that drive a person to train with the intense and consistent nature it takes to turn yourself into a top level runner. To experience and grow familiar with the effects and pain of running at the very edge. Because if there is one thing I'm sure of about pain thresholds and toughness is that the better shape a person is in, the higher their pain threshold is.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

Dan · Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 1:21 pm Post subject:

I agree with your assessment, but...

Paul · Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 5:05 pm Post subject:

For a long time, I have always felt that good athletes possess a high tolerance for discomfort, especially when compared to the general population. In fact, I almost consider it a prerequisite. And I am not alluding to the things DG was getting into. I am amazed at the level of muscular discomfort we would consider quite mild, others consider intolerable.

Paul

Dan · Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 5:37 pm Post subject:

Makes you wonder how bad it really hurts when you have a painful injury like a pulled muscle...

Dan

Distance_Guru · Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 6:48 pm Post subject:

It is strange how some people can work through all kinds of problems and never stop or complain, while others cry at the slightest discomfort. I've always attributed this to experience and determination. If a person knows what they've got and realize what needs to be done to accomplish their goals then they are much more likely to deal with pain than a person that has either not experienced this or doesn't have a serious desire to acheive their goals inspite of physical discpmfort. This goes back to my trained theory. If your well trained the less you let things like discomfort affect you when trying to accomplish your goals.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

Dan · Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 7:17 pm Post subject:

Taking DG's thoughts a step further and combining them with something Conway said, I wonder if "stress testing" an individual's pain threshold in the athletic sense would require departing from the athletics realm (to remove the training/familiarity factor) and going toward something like torture. Any volunteers? Smile

Dan

Conway · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:12 am Post subject:

I wouldn't volunteer forr any sort of torture, but that is exactly what I am thinking - in terms of getting away from the normal ...

Ya'll are right in that an individual can usually push himself or herself somewhat past the normal on occasion .. I have seen athletes pull muscles and yet finish races (Mo Greene in last years WC 100, Bert Cameron in the '84 Oly 400 semi are my favorites) ... Then come back and not be able to walk very fast because of the pain and discomfort that it creates ... Somewhere in there is the athletes pain threshold ... Just seems to me that that would be valuable to know .. Could be a major force in getting US distance running back ot respectability ... Not that I am saying they aren't working hard enough (DG, Hammer and others) ... But if we could somehow find a way to set it up a notch so to speak without inuring the athlete ...

Am I making any sense here ??? Embarassed

Distance_Guru · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:14 am Post subject:

Of coarse the only problem with that is it assumes that if person A is better at dealing with an unfamiliar type of pain than person B he will maintain that edge as they both expereince discomfort that they are familar with. Which is possible, but not cerain.

Either way I doubt you will be getting many volunteers. Smile

_________________
Time is the fire in which we burn

Dan · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 10:31 am Post subject:

Conway · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:03 am Post subject:

Not trying to mix the two ... Just saying that what I am looking for I believ resides somewhere between the ability to compete with injury AND a persons normal ability to push forward during training ... Sad

Dan · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:05 am Post subject:

Where would you draw the line?

Dan

Conway · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:10 am Post subject:

Good question ... Closer to what would be "normal" ability to push than competing through pain I would hope ... Would do on good to be able to train at the greatest levels if you were constantly injured ...

Course it is different too for different disciplines ... Not sure I have an answer ... Is more a question in search of one ...

Micah Ward · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2002 4:20 pm Post subject:

Are we talking about pain or discomfort? Pushing through pain can be dangerous, but pushing through discomfort is necessary to improve.

Look at all the athletes we see competing with injuries that would keep most people at home on the sofa. We regularly see football players play with broken bones. We see athletes with pulled muscles, strains, sprains and other assorted booboos get taped up, injected with cortisone and sent into the game. Several years ago Ann Trason, in the space of three weeks, won the 56 mile Comrades Marathon and the Western States 100 with a hamstring that was almost torn loose from the bone. (Then she had surgery.)

Do they feel the pain less than we do? I don't think so...they just have the mental strength that lets them keep on going in the face of that pain. How do you measure that ability? It is going to be next to impossible to measure something that is mental.

Why do I think that it is mental? Because we see it in areas other than athletics. What keeps soldiers and sailors going through the agony of the training that it takes to become an Army Ranger or a Navy SEAL? What enables a POW to endure repeated torture? What enabled a guy I worked with to drill a hole through the fingernail of the swollen finger he had just whacked with a hammer in order to releave the swelling and go right back to hammering roofing on the house? What enables firefighters to climb mountains with the gear needed to fight forest fires and push for hours on end? These are not world class athletes but they have a world class ablility to endure pain and push ahead without being incapacitated by that pain.

I thought I was close to making an intelligent point but I'm not so sure now. Disect it guys and help me out.

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