Run-Down Forums

[Dan]

The recovery is relative to what is being aimed for in the workout, like you suspected. I actually cannot think of any reason for a short sprinter to be taking 20 minute rests for 200's... Anything above a 10 minute recovery implies near maximum effort, in which case it's likely to be shorter distances (30-120m) or a total of one or two intervals as a time trial type situation.

One determining factor for sufficient rest between high intensity exhertions is the time it takes for the body's creatine supply to be reabsorbed into the muscles. As I recall, something like 90% is reabsorbed after 4 minutes. It's much less early in the recovery, maybe 20% after 30-60 seconds?

Beyond that, there's the need to allow the muscles to relax so you don't pull something, the need to mentally re-focus so as to be able to practice proper technique, etc.

Dan

[training2run]

Tellez was their coach. Probably, early in their careers, he worked closely with these guys (Collins and the rest).. However, at this point (late 70s, early 80s) he was seldom around, and didn't keep a rein on them.

During these years they were racing "professionally," getting appearance money to run in Europe, and getting some support from ASICS.

I was with them year around, and they *always,* at least when I was there, took super-long rest breaks at the track, and spent far more time (year around) chatting-up the babes than running intervals.

I don't say chatting up the babes isn't more fun than training, and don't claim to know anything much about sprint training. I'm just reporting what I observed...and what I observed didn't look like "training" to me. Mad Dog Mike www.training2run.com

[Paul]

Coaches out there... finished "Speed Trap" by Charlie Francis. He seems to favor such full recovery that they even get massages between intervals, especially long intervals like 150 - 200m. John Smith trained with him for a period of time. Smith is known to work his athletes hard. Is this standard?? How does Francis' training hold up today? He states that all out short efforts are a central nervous system stimulus and need much greater recovery, even with the ergogenic aids.
Paul

[training2run]

I haven't read the book, but your quote,

[Dan]

I'll sum it up as simple as I can: Charlie Francis was, and probably still is, a sprint genius.

With the regeneration system he had in place and the intensity he was demanding from his athletes day in and day out, the longer rests made a good deal of sense. They actually ran 200's at close to world record speed!

As far as what's considered a long or short sprint interval, it basically comes down to how long maximum speed can be maintained, which is usually 60-70 meters. Beyond that, you're working speed endurance. Short intervals are usually 30m or 60m.

Good luck finding someone willing to send their copy of Speed Trap out of the country... I searched long and hard for mine and only managed to find it through an obscure used book search in Canada. Your best bet might be to find a library that carries it, check it out permanently (don't tell them I said that), and pay the replacement cost... Or just read it fast and return it. You did say you read a book a day, right?

Dan

[Distance_Guru]

What are some other really good resources for training sprinters, I love books but, video's or even people that put on top notch clincs. I'd like to improve my knowledge of sprint training, if for no other reason than the fact that it really bothers me to not know why our sprinters are doing the workouts that they're doing.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

[Dan]

I haven't seen much in the way of good visual presentations for the sprints. The Dellinger series has a pretty good relay video, but the sprint video is absolutely horrible. The clinic videos I've seen are snoozers... I think the basic problems is those that know don't care to share... Francis shared openly because he no longer had a vested interest in his position in the sport, having basically been kicked out.

The two books I've learned the most from are both from Francis, Speed Trap and Training for Speed. I learned quite a bit from attending a 3 day clinic with Loren Seagrave, but the rest has been picked up in bits and pieces along the way.

I know there are other speed training books out there, but I haven't heard enough (any?) good things about them to warrant checking them out.

Dan

[training2run]

So I guess the real definition of what is a long or short interval depends on what your racing distance is, or what you're training for. Mad Dog Mike www.training2run.com

[Dan]

[Conway]

If you want good sprint videos, tape major championship meets - Olympics, Worlds, top Euro meets ... You usuallly get all of the rounds and some top notch sprinting ... I have all the majors from 1983 forwards so I have Ben Johnson, Carl Lewis, Mo Greene, Michael Johnson, just to name a few !!!! Best source you can get and it is relativelly inexpensive ...

As for books, I agree with Dan, the best genrally aren't going to tell too much ... I have some books from the 70's earlly 80's by some foreign coaches (Soviet and Polish) including training of Borzov ... But nothing really current ... Back then coaches wrote to show their superiority ... Now its all about othe moneoy and everyone is quite guarded ... Anything you can buy typically is a primer and barely touches the surface ...

The only thing I will add to the interval discussion is that long and short for the sprints may even vary between the 100/200/400 ... It is truly all relative ....

[Dan]

As Ossie Davis said in Do The Right Thing, "those who know don't tell, and those who tell don't know."

Conway, are you finding it harder to tape meets nowadays with the constantly slipping coverage?

Dan

[Conway]

[Dan]

[Paul]

Mad Dog: The 100m dash at Seoul was so fatiguing that Johnson could only jog a half lap victory lap. How's that for endurance!! Early in the book, Francis tells us that Johnson came up to him and asked that his 300m interval be cut to 200m. 300m was just to hard. It is difficult for us to truly comprehend how hard that kind of fantastic acceleration is on the body. Conway probably does, maybe Dan, too.

In 1984 at the National Championships, I Clean and Jerked 413 lbs. I almost lost the lift, but I was able to hold on with the weight overhead as I walked all over the platform. It was probably only 10 sec, but after I was allowed to drop the bar to the floor, I went into the back warmup area where sweat rolled off of me for 5 minutes, the effort was that fatiguing. It actually ended up being the headliner for the yearly Weightlifting segment on ABC's Wide World of Sports.

Paul

[Dan]

It truly is hard to comprehend the demands of maximum intensity exhertion when your frame of reference is endurance pacing. That's why I cringe when I hear about speedwork being 400's slightly faster than marathon race pace...

Dan