Run-Down Forums

[Dan]

No guesses yet, but I also haven't had a chance to give it any thought yet...

Dan

[Justin]

I have no idea about the 10.05-10.07-10.09. I've gone through my entire lists and can't find a race with that result.

Justin

[Conway]

Wow ... I can't believe I stumped Justin on a 100 meter race ... Course maybe I'm wrong .. But here is what I have ...


1. 10.05 Allan Wells
2. 10.07 Ben Johnson
3. 10.09 Cameron Sharpe

1982 Commonwealth Games in Brisbane -- wind reading of +5.9

Key to this race was that it was the first time that Ben Johnson showed up on the map so to speak .. Two years before his bronze in Los Angeles, and obviously before Rome and Seoul .. While the race was windy, it clearly shows that Ben DID have the potential to run what he eventually did as this was EARLY in his career before the effects of the drugs would hvae been reaped !!!

Second race ..

1. 49.94 Marita Koch
2. 50.38 Christine Brehmer
3. 50.40 Irina Szewinska

1978 European Championships

Key race in that it was the emergence of Marita Koch .. Irina Szewinska had made the 400 her own ... And Christine Brehmer had been the young prodigy of East Germany ... Until Marita came along ..

Is my 100 data accurate Justin ???

[Dan]

[Conway]

Well, according to the article, Ben started in 81 with 5 milligram doses of Dianabol ... Not that I know a whole lot about drugs, but would not seem to be enough to take him to 10 flat in one season ... Course I could be wrong ...

[Dan]

I believe that is considered a fairly low dosage, based on what I've read on the subject. Your guess is as good as mine how relative dosage levels affect rate of improvement, though...

Dan

[Conway]

True .. I am sure only Dr Astafan would truly know that (Ben's Dr during the growth period) ... use brought out those results as a lot of people think of Ben as this 10.22 guy (his time in Los Angeles in 84) who suddenly and miraculously in 85 began running under 10.10 .. and then 2 years later was King of the sprints ... When Ben was a creditable medallist at Commonwealth back in 82 !!!

Same with Marita ... Many think of her as appearing on the scene in the early to mid 80s and running amuck on the world ... When it had been a process ...

And going over to another discussion going on (drug use article) it just shows that it was not just the drugs that got them there, but a lot of work and time ...

Have a meeting in a bit but will come back with a couple of other races unless someone beats me to it ...

[Dan]

Part of the problem is that it's a natural tendency to want to assume anyone that took drugs is good only because of them (exactly what Conway has been talking about) -- most everyone has a bit of the "me against the world" mentality... Many peoples' perception of Ben is colored by the comments we all read about how he was a scrawny little kid growing up and that the steroids made him huge (and fast). The first part is true, but his body had undergone massive growth well before he started his drug regimen. The drugs merely got him to the next level once he had arrived as a near-elite.

In discussing possible EPO use among East Africans with someone last year, I mentioned the troubling aspect being the consistent high performance among those runners, including the youth and up and comers who presumably have no access to such expensive drugs. His response was something along the lines of, "if you want the best race horse, you look for the thoroughbreds..." The point being that it isn't all talent or all drugs. One cannot (most likely) succeed without the other.

Dan

[Justin]

I have always thought that the dismissal of Johnson was an exercise in mass self delusion by society and sport.

I think it's quite clear that he was awesomely talented. To argue that his dominance was entirely down to drugs requires the assertion that not only his direct rivals but every 100m runner to have come along in the meantime were all clean - an absolutely absurd statement, not least since three others from the Seoul race alone have since been busted.

Much as the track world would like to forget the fact, Johnson ran 9.79 over 13 years ago (almost exactly) and it's still not been bettered, by a clean or a drug taking athlete. Thank goodness he didn't bother to get a good start or run through the line, or Mo might have had to set his sights nearer 9.70 than 9.80.

Justin

[Conway]

I agree with your assessment of society with regards to Ben Johnson ... And would probably apply it even more heavily on the track world itself ... It was almost as if Ben were the wicked witch and that by dropping this house on him all evil was being banished from the land ... And the fact that he was caught for something that he obviously didn't take would simply indicate to me that there was another or others who may have been more heavily involved in drugs than Ben, who was/were looking for someone to go down before others did ...

To add to the statement that inspite of all that has come since, Ben ran 9.79 13 years ago consider this ... Ben was clearly beginning to peak !!! Not had peaked, but was beginning to peak ... PRs in consecutive years with what appeared to be relative ease each time ... And then he was taken down as he was reaching his prime ... I hate to speculate and it does no good, however, ohters could have been chasing - or still chasing ... a mark as Beamonesque as the long jump ... Say something in the 9.65 range !!!

Imagine what THAT would have done to sprinting ??? In that case MJs 19.32 would have been expected .. And perhaps even a slight under achievement !!! I actually think the sport did itself a disservice with what it did to Ben AND is still paying for it ..

[Justin]

In Seoul Johnson had an average reaction time - 0.132 (to Lewis's 0.136 and Christie's 0.138). So there's a couple of hundredths to spare. He eased through the line, slowing from 7-10m out, costing at least another 3-4 hundredths. So Seoul was a 9.75 effort. He was coming back from injury and had had a badly disrupted season, including a big loss in Zurich. He was, as Conway says, still improving (he was only 26 in Seoul, an age we now consider to be young for a sprinter).

I don't think there's much doubt that Johnson could well have improved to under 9.70. But of course had Bob Hayes run on after Tokyo, especially at Mexico City, the record would probably have been around 9.65 anyway!

I was reading the other day that Michael Johnson, although he didn't think he could run 19.3, knew from 1991 on that he could smash the WR. In The Tokyo WC he ran 20.01 into a 3.4m/s wind. He said at the time that he thought he'd put in a 19.5 effort but we didn't take him seriously!

Justin

[Dan]

I wish MJ had taken that same attitude into the 400 earlier in his career... It seemed anti-climactic when he finally broke the record. Seemed like he could have done it just about any time he wanted.

Dan

[Conway]

Would have been very interesting to see what Bob Hayes would have done had he run in Mexico City ... He had run a windy 9.91 in Tokyo on that chewed up dirt track ... I would think that Justin is right in that the record may have gone under 9.70 in those conditions ... Makes me think I should start another discussion that I have thought of starting that I would call "What If" ... As in what if Bob Hayes had run in Mexico City what would it have done to the sport and the years that followed ... But that is for a different discussion ...

As for MJ he was very lucky ... Carl Lewis took the same attitude regarding the 200 and the long jump and never got "his" records ... MJ was fortunate in the 200 that the Atlanta track was built ... As pre and post Atlanta he was never again close ... Well he did have the 19.71 at altitude in 200 ... His 400 record was a work of art ... He set out to get that one and he was ready and he did it ... Gotta give him credit for that ...

What his career and Carl's prove however, is that athletes have to perform when they are ready ... As in now ... Those special moments don't come often no matter who you are ... And when you are in that groove you gotta take advantage ... Lewis may have had the record in his 19.75 ... And Marsh most certainly had it in his reach in his Barcelona semi (19.73) ... Neither was ever close again ... Moral to the story - always run throught the finish ...

[Conway]

Time for a new race ... Let's try this one ...

1. 10.73
2. 10.83
3. 10.87
4. 10.92
5. 11.07

A very important race (IMHO) ...

[Conway]

Is no one going to try to guess this race ??? Does it not look remotely familiar ?? Hint - It's a major women's race ... Significant both for the present and the future ... At least in my opinion ...