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Health & Nutrition
Nutrition and Food Supplements
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Dan
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Joined: 22 Mar 1999
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Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2003 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Whether the type of protein being touted is soy, whey, casein, or milk...

If I'm not mistaken, that's only 2 distinct things, not 4. I mention this largely because I'm allergic to 3 of them...

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2003 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, I didn't get your point. I didn't see any numbers in the article. However, there are major differences between whole milk, casein and whey, including their bioavailability, digestion, and the ease, or lack of, to create into a supplement. My protein of choice in the 80's was casein, but I have switched to whey. The newest supplements are so so micronized, they just melt into water.

Paul
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Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2003 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's probably because I didn't really have a point. Smile I was just skimming over the article, and that line was the first thing to catch my eye. From the standpoint of the article's premise, they are very different things. From a nutritional/digestive/allergenic standpoint (which millions of people in this country would be well advised to take seriously when it comes to dairy), it's a much different matter. To the author's credit, he does get to that a bit later on, but I can tell you from personal experience that most people do not know whey and casein are both milk products, just as most are disbelieving (or not aware) that spelt is closely related to wheat... Just something to point out for those to whom it's important.

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2003 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that people who have an intolerance to milk products should give the whey products a try, to see if they tolerate them. Most of the allergy causing items appear to be removed by the processing.

Paul
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Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2003 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was curious about that from the article's description of how many steps there are to the processing, but I'd be rather nervous given how much variability there apparently is to what steps are performed. Seems risky, especially when there's no shortage of alternative protein sources.

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2003 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another site for those interested in whey, glutathione, and other antioxidants. Notice the number of articles aimed at athletes.

http://www.1whey2health.com/immunocal_reports_06.htm#whey

Scroll up or down to see if there's anything to interest you.

Paul
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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2003 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2003 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only read the first few pages of the first article, but I quickly lost count of the number of sketchy arguments it presents... Too much going on right now to read through it in much detail, let alone comment on it and the others, but any article who's opening premise is that something is bad because it wasn't seen as fit to eat thousands of years ago, then goes on to explain that people didn't learn how to process the few properly until quite recently, has some serious deficincies in the logic department. Thumbs Down Heck, a lot of people believe the primary reason so many [unknowing] people have digestive issues with wheat is exactly because it has been in our diets for so long and steadily bastardized over time.

Like I always say, you can prove anything you want through "research"...

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2003 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fallon and Enig are well respected in their fields concerning diets and lipids. This is their 2nd article, the 1st article was very heavy on research and had 70 items in the bibliography. The FDA has become such a political entity that, for a long time, I have simply not believed what they propose to be good or not good for me.

I realize that anti soybean remarks from a whey protein company is a bit disconcerting and self serving. My biggest question concerning this topic when I ran into the 1st Fallon and Enig article mid-2001 was why is the FDA jumping so firmly on the soybean bandwagon, given the flaws, fallacies, and disagreements on a good portion of the research.

Paul
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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2003 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...probably beating a dead horse here...

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/soy_alert.html
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2003 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't really help with answering those questions... As you pointed out, there are so many financial motivations for what we're being told to or not to consume -- often very contrasting views on the same subject -- that it is difficult to make any sense of it. I've found the best thing is to just go with your gut feeling, and my gut feeling tells me soy is one of the healthiest things out there, despite the findings of those trying to shoot it down (how much financial backing do you suppose there is from the wheat/dairy industries -- both direct competitors to soy -- on such issues, not to mention the meat industry?).

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2003 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fallon heads the Weston A. Price Organization, whose ideas concerning meat, dairy, and grain are diametrically opposed to the companies supplying those products as we know them today. Full disclosure - Enig also sits on the Board.

Looks to me like it's a donation funded informational site only. Although one can't fully determine where all the money comes from, I would hesitate to say a lot of it comes from the beef industry since a lot of those conglomerates bulk up their herds with soy products.

I was toying with the idea of adding a cod liver supplement but was worried about the toxic metals content of so much fish today.
Quote:
One concern about taking cod liver oil is the presence of contaminants—heavy metals (such as mercury, cadmium and lead), PCBs and so forth. Fortunately, consumers need not worry when it comes to cod liver oil. All cod liver oils in the US must be tested according to protocols of the Association of Analytical Communities (AOAC) and approved free of detectable levels of 32 contaminants before they can be imported into this country. Furthermore, mercury is water soluble. It may be present in the flesh of fish, but it is not present in the oil.


Paul
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2003 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I would hesitate to say a lot of it comes from the beef industry since a lot of those conglomerates bulk up their herds with soy products.

Yeah, but I doubt they want that to be common knowledge. Wink

It sounds like you have a rather deep interest in the various nutrition and supplement topics. If you think you might be in Corvallis at any time, I can give you the name of an absolutely brilliant naturopath-type. He'll blow your mind with his depth of knowledge and ability to determine what's going on in your body just from talking to you.

Dn
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Paul
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Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2003 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd probably be afraid to find out. I know some (not me! Surprised ) can get carried away with this stuff. Maybe it's like analyzing the 10m splits in ElG's world record 1500. You get to a point where you say "enough already", let's just go out and run!!
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Paul

"Gaunt is Beautiful" Cassidy's T-shirt
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Dan
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Joined: 22 Mar 1999
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Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2003 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't argue with that... Speaking of which, I'm still asking myself why I trudged through lousy weather to run the last two days and then took today off on a beautiful day... Confused Although, I guess the quad cramp about an hour ago partially answered that question.

Still, if you're ever curious... Wink

Oh, one of this guru's prize pupils was the big time OSU wrestler ~5 years ago who's name is escaping me. Les something or other? Hutches?

Dan
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