Run-Down Forums

[Conway]

Don’t want to have the same old drug conversation that seems to take place everywhere … But … It is an important topic within the sport .. And unfortunately it affects everyone ..

The issue came back to the front of my mind over this past weekend .. I watched a half hour segment on ESPN on Florence Griffith Joyner .. Now while everyone has their feelings/opinions on Ms FloJo, I was struck by a few things …

First of all while no one would accuse her directly, all except her immediate family made allusions to “the great physical changes”.. the “once in a lifetime season” .. and other similar comments ..

Secondly the defense of those closest to her was on the line of “there is no proof”.. “she has never tested positive” .. “why can’t they leave her alone” ..

These things struck me because it illustrates that the topic is one that everyone is afraid of !!! That everyone is afraid of drugs whether they are using or not .. And that everyone is afraid to “tell” on those that they know or suspect are using them .. And the sad thing is that there are hospitals (and graves) full of people (from all sports) that have suffered because of their use .. And yet EVERYONE turns and looks the other way .. Including the IAAF and all of the other federations – USATF included ..

Heaven forbid that a high profile athlete is caught and made public (Ben Johnson being the lone exception and cause for a thread all of his own) .. Don’t want to make a federation look bad .. Don’t want to lose a medal ..

Watching this show made me feel disgust for the sport .. Why ?? Because the focus seems to be all wrong … See I always viewed the core of track and field to be about performance .. About doing one’s absolute best and comparing that to what came before and seeing if it could stand the test of what came after .. About putting it on the line week after week against the best you can find and seeing how you stack up .. But apparently I am wrong .. Apparently it is about A) winning medals at any cost, and B) securing rankings at any cost .. Any cost being drugs if necessary to get the medals; and avoiding competitoin if necessary to get the rankings ..

[Conway]

And to add insult to injury we have a set of records which are almost completely meaningless on the women’s side .. And enhancement inducing on the men’s .. AND IT’S ALL CONDONED .. By those at the highest levels .. By those at the middle levels .. And by those at the bottom .. Becasuse lord knows if you try to speak up you get squashed ..

I veiw the drug issue like a busy intersection without a stop light .. Everybody knows it’s a problem .. Everybody sits and watches people get hurt and/or die because of it .. But the powers that be keep sitting by doing nothing .. Trying to figure out how high the death toll needs to be before “real” action (putting in a damned STOP LIGHT) is taken to fix the damned problem ..

It’s time to take the heads out of the sand and face the reality .. Because until we do the sport is going to languish in the land of mediocrity .. And eventually die .. Because it is clear that that is what extended drug use leads to – death .. Of the athletes and eventually the sport itself ..

All right .. I just had to say that …

***Had to split it in half again ... ... Guess I talk too much ...

[Dan]

I don't really have anything to add other than a few thoughts that are more extensions of what you already said:

- We can't possibly win the war against drugs, so what are we accomplishing and is it worth dragging the sport through the mud as a result?

- Sure, the sport would be cleaner and more enjoyable if drug-free, but I don't think it would be any less enjoyable sans testing. We already are in the dark on probably 99% of all drug taking and testing situations, so that wouldn't change... Instead of all the accusations and suspicions, perhaps we'd be back to just the competition?

Off topic, but are you getting an error message or anything when you have to split your post in half? I did some tests with obscenely long messages and had no such problems, and I can't find anything in the program code that would limit post length...

Dan

[Distance_Guru]

Sorry Dan I don't follow are you suggesting that the IAAF stop testing?

I suppose it is an idea. We could be like body building with never used, not using now, and don't ask don't tell divisions. It is sad that someone would put there health at risk for a record or a medal. Of coarse I'm not judging anyone because I will not say that if given the choice of taking a drug that would allow me to possibly win an Olympic medal or not take it and probably miss the Olympic team all together that I would absolutly not take the drug if there was a good chance I could get away with it.
But those are choices athletes today are now faced with.

_________________
Time is the fire in which we burn

[Conway]

Sadly Guru what you say is true ... And for that reason I think Dan made the comment that he did .. At this point in time you don't know who is and who isn't ... So what is the point ?? If you're fighting a war that you can't win .. And the fact that you are fighting only brings negativity to your cause/sport ... What do you do ???

[Hammer]

If testing was stopped it would be disasterous. Almost everyone would dope. At the very least athletes have some level of fear when they do cheat.

[Conway]

Devil's ADvocate Questions for the group (ie they do not necessarliy reflect my personal opinions) :

Why is "doping" bad ??

What is "cheating" ??

What is a "natural" substance ??

[Distance_Guru]

Doping is bad because it can kill you.

Cheating is doing anything outside the rules. And without rules there is no sport.

And you've got me as far as natural. I think the idea behind the IAAF's selection of drug that are banned is the potential negative effects that drug might have latter on. After all you don't want a gold medalist kicking the bucket in the middle of the national anthem.

I can't tell you how happy I am that the IAAF is now testing year round for EPO. I think it is a big step in the right direction. Although from what my understanding of EPO taking it out of season isn't very smart. The extra red blood cells would simply be flushed out of your system before they could be put to good use. But I think more than anything I feel the IAAF is trying to send a message to any potential cheaters, they they'll be looking for them and that the drug that use to be undetectible is now not even safe to use at any time.

_________________
Time is the fire in which we burn

[Dan]

[Distance_Guru]

With all this talk of rampant drug use I have a question.

Who's cheating?

We've been talking a lot on other threads about Geb, I have never heard any rumors about him but with the level he runs and the alleged rampant drug use by other runners how is it he's been able to stay on top for as long as he has without cheating? And what about the other dominant runners in Track over the past couple of years; Johnson, he broke those records with some amazing times, Greene, he's running really fast and sure looks big and strong, El G he has really been taking names in the mile for a while now.
I'm just curious why these athletes aren't surrounded with rumors while many athletes that are running slower athletes in the same events are. I'm not accusing any of these athletes I was just wondering.

_________________
Time is the fire in which we burn

[Conway]

Heavy question .. Answer .. Who knows !!! That's the big problem here ...

Of those you named, there is nothing pointing to use by any of them ..

MJ's record was set on a track that was literally built for speed ... Neither he, nor anyone else that ran on that track, has come close to those performances ..

Mo is well built, but so are his team mates .. Yet none approaches his performances .. And one thing I will say about the HSI group is that none of them have gone through the facial changes that many other sprinters have gone through that would indicate drug use ..

As far as ElG and Geb, distance running goes through periodic changes where someone comes along and goes a little better than everyone else ... Coe, Cram, MOrcelli, Geb ... Moorcroft, Aouita, Kenyans, GEb .. I think with distanace running we're just not at the end of the growth curve yet ... But I think we are getting close ...

[Distance_Guru]

“The man who has made the mile record is W.G. George … His time was 4 minutes 12.75 seconds and the probability is that this record will never be beaten.”

Harry Andrews (1903)


When ever people talk about human limits I always think of this quote and laugh.
My point is who knows how much faster the human body can naturally go, with all the advanced training methods, training modalities and other advancements in sports it is hard to believe that as good as Geb, MJ, Mo, or even FloJo's records are it seems likely that in 20-25 years they will all be erased from the record books by an athlete that is clean. At least that is most defineatly my hope.


_________________
Time is the fire in which we burn

[ This Message was edited by: Distance_Guru on 2002-03-26 15:04 ]

[Conway]

Good quote ... I've always thought that records were made to be broken ... But now we have some records that are pretty far out there ... Not saying they can't be broken, but it is going to take someone "special" to do so ...

For example, I would say that almost all of the women's records are near untouchable .. If they are broken it will be by small increments and I am not sure the breaker will be "clean" .. Many of those records are around or over 15 years old ..

For example .. The 400 .. 2 women broke 48.00 in the 80's ... Only 2 broke 49.00 during the 90's (none yet in the new millenium) .. Not a good trend ... Fastest relay leg since 1990 has been 48.6 (Breuer) and I believe approx 6 individuals have split under 49.00 ... During the 80's the US, Germany, and the Soviet Union had approx a doz individuals between them splitting under 49.0 - Soviets and Germans had 2 each under 48.0 !!!!

With all of the "improvements" of the last two decades women's performances appear to be in retreat ...

Now things look better on the men's side I grant you ... But not much ... Lots of record breaking up to the mid 90's ... But has seemed to slow down dramatically since ... And unfortunately when the general public tunes in to the sport they want to see records ... ...

I do think that the men's records will fall sooner than the women's, but at a very slow rate ... Like maybe one every couple of years ... Even though the overall level of competition is the highest it has ever been !!!

One of the terrible side effects of drug use I suppose

[Dan]

Before Ben Johnson's infamous drug bust, I was aware of the drug allegations but didn't really care. Since then, I've been of the mind that pretty much everyone is using and I find it much harder to enjoy performance for what they are without wondering what the truth really is. The uncertainty is probably the single worst thing about the current state of the sport, I would have to say.

Our society is full of "supplementing" our bodies with unhealthy stuff. How many times have you heard of alcohol referred to as liquid courage? Why is it acceptable to "enhance your performance" is social situations but not in athletic ones? There's no such thing as a level playing field in reality, so I don't buy that base argument. All we accomplish is spending mind boggling amounts of money on testing and legal battles, which results in an ever increasing negative perception...

Dan

[Distance_Guru]

Conway is right about the women's records, some of those are unreal (even for world records), I mean Marion Jones is obviously the best female sprinter in the world and she isn't even coming close to the record in the 100 and I don't even want to talk about some of the times that Ma's Army put up, of coarse most people that follow the sport, talk about the non-Chinies record as the real world record anyway. And if one of the two genders should be breaking records faster than the other I would think it would be women, since around the world women now are repressed less than they were a generation ago and at least in the west it is much more acceptable for women to participate in sports than it was even as recently as the 80's.

As for the men most of the records seem humanly possible at least for the best human ever any way. Although some of Geb's and Michael Johnson's records are pretty fast even for the best ever. But at the same time neither of those athletes has had anyone accuse them of using a band substance, at least to my knowledge. Also it seems that the athletes that are accused of cheating tend to be athletes that have a spurt of improvement, especially late in their careers. And to my knowledge very few if any of the male world record holders have had this. And I don't want it to seem that I am saying that the women cheat more than the men, because I feel that it is quite the opposite, however I think that banned substances might have a more pronounced effect on them than on men. A smaller body might mean that you need less of a substance in your system to get results, and less substance would likely mean a smaller chance of testing positive. Also some of the horomones would likely have a greater impact on female anatomy since their bodies are not as acustomed to many of the hormones that men produce in greater amounts.

_________________
Time is the fire in which we burn