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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:27 am    Post subject: Thoughts, Advice, Opinions... Reply with quote

I think the 10k I did clicked with something in my brain. I don't know why, but the satisfaction of running a mediocre 10k time was greater than when I ran my fastest 5k this past year. At first I was sort of afraid of 6.2 miles, now I wish to run that distance, and more. With a 15k coming up in two and a half weeks, I decided to run as long as I could comfortably. I was surprised to see that I clocked in at around 86 minutes (no stopping, even to let a car by or wait at a stop light), which would be 10+ miles. I really enjoyed it and felt like I had accomplished something. That got me thinking...

It would be really cool to run a marathon. Even if I improved quite a bit in XC next year and was able to run low-18s, I'd feel like I accomplished more by completing a marathon than running a time that would place me about 5th on the team. When I'm in my 30s and even older, the satisfaction of running a marathon when I'm 17 would be greater than being 5th on the team. I don't think 17 is too young even though I would probably one of the youngest in the entire field.

With something as big as this, I'd think I'd need to make my decision by April or May. I'm beginning to think of a race schedule that would lead up to the Portland Marathon on October 3rd and would include the Pacific Crest Mountain Half-Marathon on June 26th in Sunriver. Another determining factor would be if I would be willing to get up at 6:00 AM during the summer and go for about a 15 miler twice during the week and once on the weekend for about a 20-22 miler.

I wasn't planning on doing XC anyways (same coach) and I feel this would give me something to aim for work at. I'd probably be on my own unless I found/signed up for a group with committed people around my pace level.


Anyone have any thoughts, advice, concerns, etc about this?

Hopefully Micah decides to go for a marathon this year so we can compare stories and be able to motivate each other.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't keep up with your favored events... Smile

If you enjoy it, great, by all means full speed ahead with it. That's why you're in the sport.

Once you establish what sort of goal time you're after, you might want to look into the Gallagher Fitness Resources marathon training group. I'm not sure what all pace groups they have training, but I could check for you once you ballpark a time. They are well structured and have good participation, so if there's someone at the level you're interested in, it could be a good training boost.

Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm planning on going to Gallagher's in a couple weeks to get a new pair of shoes, so I think I'll ask questions and try to learn as much as possible.

It's hard to really set a goal time now. Right now, I'd be pleased to break 4:00. That's about a 9:10 mile, so I'm sure as I run longer and time an 18-miler I'll have a better idea at what kind of time I should aim for.

Do you know any roads that would be good to run on so you don't have to worry about stopping for lights or stop signs, but aren't infested with cars? I ran on River Road today and there were quite a few cars and not much shoulder to run on.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the 4:00 range, you would definitely have people to train with. Probably 3:30 and under would still provide you some good training partners.

River Road could be quite hairy for long runs, especially in bad weather. I'm actually not terribly fond of Salem for running options... Do you have a car? If so, the best running around is outside of town. Silver Falls State Park has a great ~7 mile loop. Takes right around an hour if you're moving pretty well. If you built up to 2 full loops for long runs, you'd be well on your way to a Marathon. Mac Forest down in Corvallis provides nearly endless trails and hills. Staying closer to home, maybe the roads out around Jefferson, south of town? They seem pretty open and lightly trafficked, although you're guaranteed to be bucking some nasty headwinds.

Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well now....this is an interesting turn of events. First of all, you are not too young to think about running a marathon. I would recommend though that you run the first one just to finish and get a feel for the distance.

I agree with Dan about the training groups and the 7 mile trail. Sounds like a good place to run.

The key to marathon training is the weekly (or every other week) long run. That is what builds the stamina to complete the distance without bonking. A lot of training plans only take you up to a 20 miler in training. Galloway says that is why people hit the wall at 21-22 miles...they haven't pushed to the full distance in training. So he recommends one run of 26 miles two weeks before your race. I don't think you need to do the two 15 mile runs during the week though. You need to let the week days be recovery days from the weekend's long run.

Joe Henderson recommends a long run of the same time you expect to run for the marathon even if it is slower and you don't cover the whole distance. For example, if 4 hours is your target then build to a long run of 4 hours even if is at a slower pace than you expect to run the race. Do the long runs every other week and on the weeks that you don't run long then you run a 10 miler at the pace you want to run for the marathon. For a 4 hour marathon that would be the 9:10 pace. He says you then combine race pace and race distance on race day and that day only.

Those are just two of many plans that are out there. The best advice though is to get with that training group and see what plans have been used by people who have actually run a marathon. Wink

I'm just an old guy who keeps getting injured. Embarassed
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Paul
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Will: here is a link with 7 articles worth reading, especially the first and last.

http://www.internetfitness.com/running.htm
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The local Gallagher group is part of the Galloway program.

Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
Well, Will: here is a link with 7 articles worth reading, especially the first and last.

http://www.internetfitness.com/running.htm


Thanks for the link. I had read a few before including the Yasso 800s and I'll admit I'm still a little skeptical about them.


Dan wrote:
Do you have a car?


No. That's one thing I need to do soon (learn to drive). I haven't had good luck with motorized vehicles, so I've tried putting it off for a long while.

I may just take a run in a few days and look for good roads in/near town that are low traffic and easily manageable. I don't mind running on River, but it could be slightly dangerous.

Micah Ward wrote:
I would recommend though that you run the first one just to finish and get a feel for the distance.


I agree completely. I hope to make it an annual (or biannual?) experience and know this first one will be used just to get my feet wet and to be able to say I did one. I'm thinking of a five tier goal system that would be something like:

1. Finish
2. Break 4:00
3. Break 3:45
4. Be able to complete w/out walking
5. Break 3:35

Of course I would be happy to complete the first one, but the others are there so I still have something to continually shoot for.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks like a good tier of goals and your target race is far enough off that you have plenty of time to get ready for it. Good luck.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, here's the real deal. I am predicting you will break 3:35 on your inaugural marathon. I am basing this on the most conservative calculators based on your 5K and 10K times. I am also basing this prediction on this: right now you are well under 8 min per in your 10K. As your training preparation starts gearing toward the marathon, you will hold that sub 8 through 15K and Half. I think by Oct you will be able to sustain an 8 min pace through 26 miles, which is a 3:30 time.

Don't sell the Yasso 800's short. Remember, we are talking marathon here. Let's look at the workout from your standpoint going into a proposed marathon. We are talking 3:30 for 10 x 800 with a 300-400m jog in between. If you figure in 1 1/2 miles warmup and cooldown, it becomes a 10 mile workout.

As I become healthy, I would like to explore other training venues. I would surely consider coming to Salem or Silver Falls for a training session. As I'm sure Dan would as his fitness improves.

More from work tonight.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm game. Thumbs Up

I'm always hesitant to make an extrapolation/prediction over such a large event range when someone (Will) is so new to the distance. Sure, the performances are equivalent, but there's so much yet to be seen how his body will react to the extra 20 miles. For that reason, I'm more in the camp of just trying to finish the first one and see where things shake out, then fine tune the goals from there.

Too much expectation early could make the necessary long-term training approach extra difficult.

Dan
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for being so optimistic Paul! I really hope I can get there. All I can do is just be as prepared as possible and let things fall into place. My Chemistry teacher has completed the Portland Marathon the past two years and he says it's great for first timers like myself.

For the Yasso 8s are you supposed to do them hard or are you supposed to run a goal pace and not go faster? 3:30 would at this point would be something incredible to do, but I'm confident that I wouldn't have too much trouble going to the track and running 8-10 3:30s with so much rest time between intervals.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, I agree, I just remain optimistic! Smile
One of the real drawbacks is the training regimen. Almost exclusively aerobic and lactate threshold work. Some people thrive on this diet, others find it too tedious. No fun stuff, no speedwork to speak of. Will, this is something you need to take into consideration.
Will, your stride pattern is going to have to change. Quick turnover with not much pushoff is going to be key. That long loping stride will wear you out too quickly.
Finding a workout group will take the monotony out of all this, but you may get bored with the walk breaks.
Shoes: training flats need to be well cushioned. You need to determine if you have any kind of pronation problem. If you are a neutral runner that will work to your advantage.
When is your 15K?? Consider running Shamrock 15K in mid-March. That shouldn't be too much of a stretch for Track, should it?? This is a huge event with literally thousands of runners in 5-6 different events, and will give you a feel for what events this size are like.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will, check out my race report titled "Shamrock 15K March 16". Its located on page 2 of Rambling Runners.

The beauty of the Yasso 8's is that they are much faster than marathon pace, but not really true VO2 Max. Yes, I agree you shouldn't have that much trouble with that workout, In fact, this Fall I could have done that workout with no problem. Just another reason for my optimism.
The key is going to be the long runs and the semi-long runs in the 10-12 mile category. And bringing your lactate threshold much closer to your VO2 Max.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Paul on the Yasso's. I've heard so many good things about that workout I would recommend giving them a try. I plan on it if I ever get healthy again. Sad
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