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Paul
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2002 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, DG. And thanks for also using the term meal replacement which I hadn't, but that is exactly what the new supplements can be referred to as. In heavy training environments athletes may need up to 5000 calories a day. They can eat 3 meals and add 2 other "meals" with the food supplements without overloading their digestive systems. Remember back in the 70's when runners were known to consume an entire loaf of bread?? Bill Rodgers was known to eat mayonnaise out of a jar with a spoon, but that was a little extreme. Laughing

Paul
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2002 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a topic I don't know too much about, but a representative of HSI talked awhile back about the need for supplements. The gist of it was that to get enough calories and nutrients to support the heavy training load, their athletes would have to eat so much they'd be unable to run. It gets into the area of strength without weight, which is a very murky subject... As big as elite sprinters look, most of them are 5'9" to 5'10" and 165 to 175 pounds. In other words, the size of your average guy on the street. Yet, 400+ pound bench presses are not unheard of, so you can imagine the leg strength!

Paul, maybe you have a better handle on how to explain this, given your weight lifting background? The best way I can try to visualize it is "hollow muscle."

Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2002 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting enough calories is all about timing. I firmly believe that you don't have to take supplements to meet the nutritional needs as an athlete in training. Are supplements an easy way of getting your calories and nutrients absolutly, and should be thought of as such. The key to getting enough calories is timing. You can do it one of two ways. The first way which is usually considered the best way, is to eat around 6 small meals a thus deviding the calories up over an extended period so that your never to full or very hungry. I've tried this and I have to say I felt very good I always had energy and I was never hungry. You know it's time to eat again when you feel your energy level drop. The other method I've tried most people consider a big no-no but it worked best for me at the time. When I was in college and putting in high mileage summer training I would eat two very big meals a day. My schedule worked out like this, get up and run at about 8:00, shower and be to work (Burger King) by 10:00. Sometime between elven and one o'clock I would have lunch. Two whoppers with cheese a large fry and ice tea (about 2300 calories). Then after I got off work at five I'd go home nap until about seven and run at about 7:30. After I got back from my run, showered and relaxed a little I'd have another large meal at about 10:00. That is once heck of a diet Smile although I don't recommend anyone try it unless they're running 15 miles hard every day.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2002 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You didn't by any chance go to bed repeating the mantra, "if the fire is hot enough, anything will burn," did you? Wink

Like I said, I don't know a ton about this area, but it came from a very in-the-know person with HSI that in their view, it's impossible to train at that level without relying heavily on vitamins and supplements.

Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2002 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
You didn't by any chance go to bed repeating the mantra, "if the fire is hot enough, anything will burn," did you? Wink


That philosophy was the cornerstone of that diet. But hey don't nock it if it works. I had just under 4% body fat and was running times that were much faster than anybody had ever thought I was capable of.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2002 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tough to argue with that, although that rarely stops me...

I believe the correct quote is actually, "if the furnace is hot enough, anything will burn." My bad.

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2002 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding DG's post, I think we have all have had training situations where we could eat anything and it seemed to burn itself up in our training. But this post is about runnergal and I hope we hear back from her. Nutrition plays an important role, though I tend to shy away from the fanatics, but nutrition and its effects on recovery can make a real difference. I have experienced situations like DG's where you consume 3000 calories and your stomach is still growling!!
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey thanks for all the advice guys. I tried the drink, and wow, I thought I was going to gag. I think I might just have to stick to eating more food because I really can't stand the supplements. Although it is hard for me, I'm just going to have to force myself to take in the calories. Thanks for all your posts.
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Paul
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Runnergal, you've hit on one of the major problems with taking supplements, and that is if they are unpalatable, one doesn't use them consistently. I would still like to see you try Metabolol in the chocolate flavor. It will mix in a cup of water with a spoon. A 1K can (2.2 lbs) will run you $30 plus or minus, but I think you will be very surprised how palatable it is. You can also use a blender and mix a banana in it with some milk if you like.

Another option, as funny as this may sound, is to buy some of the smaller TV Dinners by Healthy Choice and microwave one as a snack. They are in the 300 calorie range, fairly low in fat with adequate protein and carbs. Check the labeling and see which ones you would prefer. There are always coupons available and, on sale, can cost less than $1.50 a serving. Please continue to keep us posted.

Paul
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Runnergal, here is a little trick I have used to get more calories into my diet. I, just like you, generally can't stand the taste of the meal replacement shakes I tried. So I would take some choclate instant breakfast and mix it with soy milk (Soy Dream, vanilla flavor). I used soy milk because it was lower in fat and the powder disolved much better in that than in regular milk. It gave me the extra calories I needed, a good amount of vitamins and minerals too. And best of all it was cheap and tasted good. I would use it as my mid morning and mid afternoon snacks. It might be worth a try.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey its me again, thanks for all the advice. just curious, how many grams of protein and carbs do u think i should be eating a day? as i said, im 5' 7" 100 pounds, running 55 MPW and weight training twice a week with a trainer. i have read all about this stuff and gotten advice but i was curious as to what you all thought. thanks for any info you can give me.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2002 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good rule of thumb for protien and wieght is 1.5 grams of protien per Kilogram (2.2 lbs) of body wieght. So 100 lbs is about 45.5 kilograms. That means the you should be getting about 68.25 grams of protein per day.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks, that was helpful... is there something like that for carbohydrates too? to figure out how many grams I should be eating daily? sorry i just want to make sure I am getting enough grams of everything because I don't want to lose any weight (muscle) or get weaker as a result of training and not eating enough. I only weigh 100 pounds right now, so I have a feeling if I dropped below that I would only be losing muscle and jeapordizing training? Am i correct?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When it comes to Carbs it becomes more about what the total number of calories per day is. About 65% of you calories should come from carbohydrates. Or for body weight you want at least 30 calories (7.5 grams) per kilogram of body wieght. So for you about 1365 calories (341 grams) of carbohydrates every day.

As for a drop in your wieght hurting your running, it probably would. Although that said I wouldn't sweat it to much. If your eating regularly you'll probably be okay. One tip, if you are going to be keeping track of wieght always wiegh yourself at the same time of day, after eating as usual. When I was a personal trainer I had clients that would complain that they gained four or five pounds in the last two days. I'd ask when they wieghed themselves and they'd say "right after supper". The same goes for loosing wieght. After a 12 mile run in the New Mexican summer heat I would wiegh myself and find that I'd droped as much as seven pounds (all water) since the last time I checked. I guess what I'm getting at is be consistant, eat, check your wieght and of coarse run on a consistant sechedule and you'll get the best possible results.
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