Run-Down Forums

Paul · Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2002 5:10 am Post subject:

This raises some interesting questions. Are there enough good distance coaches around so that if your personalities clash, you can move on?? Are there so few good sprint programs that if you have some personality conflicts, you just have to suck it up because there are so few places to move on to?? What is the real reason Webb is turning pro?? If he just packs up and moves to another school, doesn't he lose a year of eligibility, plus sit out a year?? With that senario in your immediate future, why not turn pro??

Your thoughts!!

Paul

Dan · Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2002 7:20 am Post subject:

I don't see it as a lack of coaching options so much as a circle of knowledge and comfort zone issue. How many kids are willing or prepared to pack up and move across the country on a whim? Maybe less of an issue now with the ability to find diverse geographic information online, but still...

Distance_Guru · Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:36 am Post subject:

This is simply guessing but I would imagine with Webb, the reason he went to Michigan was because he felt more comfortable with the coach there than with any of the other coaches recruiting him. This is a kid that really could have gotten a full ride to any school he wanted. So his choice was almost certainly based on how comfortable he felt with the coach. If the coach that he liked the most didn't workout I would imagine he would really hesitate to uproot and move accross the country to run for a coach that he liked less than this guy. And face the very real possibility of loosing a year of eligability to boot.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

Conway · Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:23 am Post subject:

I do agree that there is a definite lack of coaching options for elite kids coming out of high school ... Virtually a handful for young distance runners ... Slightly better in the sprints and hurdles, but not by a whole lot ... There really aren't enough to provide a good set of regional options for young folks who might want to stay near home (within say 500-1000 miles or so) during their collegiate years ... So I do think that is a problem ...

Having said that I don't think that was the issue with Webb ... I think Webb felt comfortable initially with the coach at Michigan ... But I also think the fact that they had another freshman coming in as a "sub 4:00 miler" AND a veteran sub 4:00 miler there already was a big part of the reason he went ... I think he saw the potential for great training and racing therefore a continuation of his progress ... THAT didn't materialize ... I think in the end he did not get what he signed on for ...

Distance_Guru · Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:20 am Post subject:

I think you are right on about Webb.

On the subject of good coaches for elite distance kids, here are a couple of options that most people don't think about. Adams State and Western State College, both in Colorado. These two schools are both D2 but they have phenominal distance running programs. Western has won the last three mens and two womens national cross country championships. That in and of itself is no real good reason for a top 5 senoir in the nation to choose them but here are a couple of runners that are the best college runners you've never heard of. Micheal Aish, he has won somewhere between 7 and 10 D2 national titles and has gone 28:00 for 10k. He is from New Zealand but he's made huge strides at WSC. He ran in the Olympic 10k in Sydney. From Adams State, and everyone needs to remeber this name because you will here it again Ziola Gomez, she is the top female distance runner in college. She red shirted this year in track so she can focus on breaking the collegiate 10k record, she was the top college female running unattached at Mt SAC this year and absolutly destroyed the top D1 women.
Adams State has recently moved it's focus to having a more balanced track team so they don't have the cross country teams that Western has but they do have athletes that can run well at any level. Westerns men's cross country team this year just might have been the best in D2 history, after watching them run as well as some of the top D1 schools I can say with complete confidence that they would have gotten no worse than 5th at D1 nationals and I think that they probably would have beaten NAU out for 4th. The coaches at these schools are some of the best anywhere. Damon Martin at Adams State is a great coach and Duane VanDenbausch (sp) at Western State is not only a great coach he and his team are total class acts. If there are any sub 9 minute 2 milers out there that are looking for top level coaching at a small school these two programs are better than all but a couple of D1 schools. Although I do know that coach VanDenbausch is getting up there in age and maybe considering retirement in a couple of years.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

Dan · Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:57 am Post subject:

Great programs, those two schools have (Yoda, anyone?), but what have they done with domestic talent? I think Adams State has had some solid American women, but those men's programs tend to be almost entirely made up of foreigners. The coaches may well be very good (as someone once said to me, you don't train poodles to race greyhounds), but from my seat, it looks more like a case of good recruiting.

Dan

Distance_Guru · Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2002 12:11 pm Post subject:

Western has had quite a few foregin athletes on the mens team in recent years but they're women still primarily come from the US. As for alumni, the most well known right now is Elva Dreyer who went to Western, they've had other I just can't think of them right now. From Adams the two that I beleive are the best know are Pat Porter and Phil Castillo. Carl Blackhurst who ran in the Steeplchase at this years US championships is a recent Adams alumni. Not a bad list for a couple of little D2 schools. Watchout for a young man from Western, I believe his name is Scott Nagelkerkie (sp), he's an American kid that has made huge strides this year and looks to be Western States heir to Aish, although I believe Nagelkerkie runs a little shorter than Aish, 1500-5k where Aish was 5k-10k guy.

And again I can't stress enough what a class group of individuals that Western State team is. Humble, hard working and more than willing to chit-chat with slower runners, like the kids I coach.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

Paul · Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:04 pm Post subject:

Thanks, all. I remember reading an article recently that Steve Scott is coaching but I forget where.

Paul

Conway · Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:20 pm Post subject:

Now, as good as you say those programs are, kids like Webb, Ritz, and Ryan Hall came out of high school already near the top of those teams rosters !!!!

That just illustrates my point ... There are lots of good programs - in terms of their competitiveness in DI, DII, DIII, but that is a world unto itself (collegiates) .. There is a world outside of collegiate competition and I only see a handful of programs that are able to prepare someone who has potential in THAT environment ...

Distance_Guru · Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2002 4:24 pm Post subject:

Western State has produce two Olympians in the last decade, that may not be Stanford, but I beleive it's better than Michigan. And if you are looking for places to send our best athletes where they can go and not be near the top, then we need to start shipping our kids off to St Patricks Boys school. Either that or become like baseball and develope a farm system for our young athletes, of coarse with the lack of money in track and field that seems highly unlikely.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

Conway · Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2002 8:09 am Post subject:

Actually I don't think that that is out of the question ... For example NIKE has regional teams do they not ??? What USATF should do is get together with EXISTING organizations in an effort to try to coordinate them into a training group ... They can compete against one another AND work together towards a common goal at the same time ... At least I think it would be possible to do so ...

Then the high quality kid coming out of high school AND the young person coming out of college would have somewhere to go ....

I can dream can't I ????

Distance_Guru · Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2002 11:00 am Post subject:

It's a dream that I wouldn't mind seeing come true. As much as I love college sports I don't think that loosing say half of the sub 9 minute 2 milers to minor league developemental teams would really cause much harm to the overall state of college track. Living in Nebraska I get to wittness first hand how well college baseball is doing and they are always loosing talent to the MLB farm system.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

Micah Ward · Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2002 12:32 pm Post subject:

I like the idea. I also like the concept of the Army's World Class Athlete Program. These guys get a world class training facility and coaching, a steady paycheck, medical treatment and adequate time to train.

Of course, they are in the military and some people might see that as a minus because the military isn't for everyone. But I've been there, done that and enjoyed it. Very Happy

Distance_Guru · Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2002 4:29 pm Post subject:

Back when I was running well, I actually gave a little thought to trying to get into that program. Then I realized two things, I wasn't world class and I quite playing basketball because the coaches yelled to much, I'd never survuive in the millitary.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

Conway · Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2002 8:21 am Post subject:

Actually in many countries athletes are part of the military ... Usually officers ... Gives them a job and plenty of training opportunity ... Doesn't seem to be a bad way to go ...

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