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110m record
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Kishan Gill
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:49 am    Post subject: 110m record Reply with quote

Just commenting on some articles I read stating that Liu's time may last for several decades or more.

As great as that time was and bearing in mind that the record has only improved by 5/100th since 1981 and it has taken 13 years for jacksons record to be bettered although several runners came close that time the statement appears to be quite sound.

However, I beg to differ. No doubt an improvement of 3/100th was significant I feel it may still be broken within a decade if not sooner. A lot of runners are coming up and running low 13.0s and only this year two newcomers to the international circuit have shown great potential including cac champ Robles who ran 13.04 in the same race as liu and he looks like one to watch for the future as is aries merrit who is still a collegian and has already left a good impression in Europe this year.

I don,t expect a huge reduction in the time as Nehemiah did when he took casanas time of 13.21 and reduced it to 13.16 and then an amazing 13.00 in the same year but probably a gradual reduction as we have been seeing previously.

Neverteless , hats of to Liu and his record.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder about these and how records progress. I can see incrementally better but then we start to get into the ideas of limits of human performance. what are they? what can change? better start? If you look over time many of the records go threough these incermental changes and then bang some big thing happens - what the factor is that causes this is probably different - the time for the record shift for many events wwas the "golden days" of track and field in the 60's and probably through th eearly seventys so many athletes performaing at such a high level Track and Field was king back then - the emergence of the African Nations - records being set all the time - some amazing Olympic years... just all added to it
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Conway
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The record won't last long ... Granted there was a long lapse from 12.93 to 12.88, but there was a 12.90 in the same race !!!! TWO guys have already broken the old record ...

The Olympic Gold medalist, Doucoure is still young and is a sub 13 hurdler as well ... The Cuban Robles, who went 13.02 in that race hasn't even turned 20 yet !!! And 13.12 performer Aries Merritt is just 21 ...

My point is, the potential to lower the record is already on the track ... And while Liu may be modest, he can do better still ... He is such a smooth performer, and those are the kinds of hurdlers that typically run fast consistently, have long careers, and continue to improve their times ...
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Kishan Gill
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is so hard to say when a performance has reached or neared the limit of human performance as you said someone comes along every now and then and pushes it further.

Their are so many examples we can cite. Mj's 200 is a good example. 19.32 still seems hard pushed to beat even after carters 19.63 run. It could still be there 20 or more years from now. But to say that it cannot be beaten we have learnt from past histories is a term that doesn't apply to sport, as unlikely as it seems in the present.

Then of course their are dubious performances such as those of Flo-Jo's or Marita Koch that are still unreachable. And you can't but feel for the top athletes who have always felt that the times set in their events will be unattainable such as the frustration of torrence and perec.

But the 110 time is still within grasp in my opinion.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Doucoure has the most potential out of ALL the Sprint Hurdlers around today. His technique is still scrappy, and his runnin between the hurdles is often erratic. With that being said he still has a 12.97 to his name and a whole bunch of 13.0 & 13.1 times to back that up. If he tidys himself up, he could drop a sub-12.85 with the kinda conditions we saw in Lausanne

Liu could faster, but I see him maxing-out on a time like 12.85/12.86 by the end of his career

Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda is not really the best way to go, but Skeets had the ability to go around 12.83 with maximal conditions so until someone beats that, it'll be hard for me to think of them as the real fastest ever 110HH - I hope they'll have fun tryin
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed Skeets was amazing and the fact that the record has only progressed as much as it has in that time frame is testament to that.

I think we are in for a good ride over the next few years in the 110HH and with the way Powell has run this year some faster times in the 100 are on tap as well IMO. The 200 is another story already been a few threads on the 400 but past that I am not sure I see much change anywhere else...

its a shame that the records (questionable at best) are still on th ebooks for the women the wind alone on that 100M record had to be illegal...

Koch and Krachtochvilava records are just out of site no one has been even close on the 800 m and that fact that she ran that as well as the 400m is just insane...
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind, the high hurdles might be the toughest race to shave off time, as it's very dependent on stride pattern and most means of getting faster affect that. Less ground contact time would seem to be the only meaningful area of improvement to an already refined hurdler.

Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you could add quality start time to that equation as well...
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, and I could be wrong, but I see hurdle clearance as the area where time can most be saved .... The more efficient one becomes over the hurdle, I think the better the time will become ...

When you look at at Liu, I think that is where he excels above the others ... Not sure he has the same kind of speed as the other guys, but he is better over the hurdle ...
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might be right about hurdle clearance, but my impression has been that there isn't much separating the elite in that regard. And if there were a significant difference, surely that extra time in the air would affect the stride pattern between the next set of hurdles (going up more than forward).

The difference between reaction times is usually pretty minimal, and starts in the hurdles are more about setting up steps than blasting out in a perfect drive phase. Perhaps someone will come along that can combine the two, otherwise, I see that area as being fairly constant.

Dan
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Kishan Gill
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liu's flat is probably at the lower end and as you all well know not as fast as trammell or doucoure who is a regular on the french relay squad.
Liu has great technique and is very aggressive towards the hurdles.
Maybe Luasanne will be his best day ever. A fast track, good weather, great competition complimented by the perfect race.

It makes you think what a hurdler with great flat speed could do with a perfectly executed hurdle clearance through the race. We have seen Nehemiah take it to another level as you have mentioned . Jackson was a worldclass 60m runner and Foster and Johnson were great over the 200m, so what I am getting at is that the next record will be set by a sprinter/hurdler.

However that view maybe be countered by the argument which I have heard before that too much speed between the sticks can actually affect technique so the perfect race is where the hurdler gets just the right balance between speed and technique.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still think its going to be someone that is better, or maximizes, over the hurdle ... When I look at record holders from say 13.2x forward, Guys like Milburn, Casanas, Nehemiah, and Liu were all wonderful on top of the hurdle ... Jackson was very inconsistent ... And Kingdom was just a beast !!!

Fluidity is going to be the key ... Hurdle clearance and the drive right off the hurdle ... Can only go so fast in between, and I think that is already at a maximum - unless one could improve their reaction time ... And not talking about reaction time at the start, but rather how fast one can react as they come up on the hurdle !!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
Keep in mind, the high hurdles might be the toughest race to shave off time, as it's very dependent on stride pattern and most means of getting faster affect that. Less ground contact time would seem to be the only meaningful area of improvement to an already refined hurdler.

Dan


Until someone will come up with dope for the human nervous system, the short dash hurdles world record will keep on improving slower than the 100 m flat world record. I believe that small amounts of the (military or governmental) lab quality LSD could possibly do the trick , but damage the brain at the same time although recovery from the minuscule damage, if used only a couple times a year at most, at the ages that the track and field athletes are competing, is likely.

Simple answer is:
they have not invented a dope for this event, and other dope used in the track and field does not work too well for this event.

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