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Conway
Olympic Medalist
Joined: 25 Aug 2001
Posts: 3570
Location: Northen California
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 Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 10:30 am Post subject: The 200 in 2003 |
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Currently Kenteris sits atop the 200 meter world ... Olympic, World, and European Champion ... 19.85 PR ... Regularly at 20.0x in the big ones ... Will he retain the title of best 200 man in the world in 2003 ??? Who can take the title away - if anyone ??? Will he run more than Athens next year ???? Does he have anything to prove ???
Here are the challengers (IMHO):
Frank Fredericks - Veteran ... 19.68, #2 all time ... Dipped under 20 (19.99) last year in his come back season after surgery ... Multiple big time medallist ...
Justin Gatlin - New kid on the block ... 19.86 & 19.97 last year ... Twice NCAA champion .. Going "pro" in 2003 ...
Shawn Crawford - old hand ... 19.85 in 02 ... Very sporadic but talented ...
Coby Miller - Olympic vet from 2000 ... Came back from broken leg ... 19.95 PR ... Erratic but strong sprinter desperately in need of technique over haul ...
Darvis Patton - Most interesting prospect to me ... Made great improvement in 02 despite the lack of available races ... Similar to Ramon Clay but seemingly more resilient to injury ... 100 speed coming down as well ....
Bernard Williams - looked ot be the second coming of Mo while at HSI ... Almost disappeared last year ... Depends on which one shows up in 03 ...
OK ... Discuss amongst yourselves ....
Conway
Last edited by Conway on Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Distance_Guru
World Class
Joined: 09 Mar 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 11:09 am Post subject: |
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I personally like Kenteris, because he keeps his eyes on the prize so to speak. He doesn't go all over Europe chacing appearance fee's. He focuses on running a few races and running them really well. Which is something I personally think is wise when your goal is to be top dog for an extended period of time. Let all the other athletes fight over scraps while you focus on winning the brass ring. And as I think he's shown he can be at the top of his game without running a ton of races before hand which leaves more time to train and fresher legs when the big meets come around. So I think Kenteris is going to continue to be the man in the 200 through 04.
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 11:20 am Post subject: |
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The brass ring?
Until the 200 gets more attention, I'm not sure enough athletes will focus seriously enough on it to mount a challenge to Kenteris' throne. I thought JJ Johnson would do it this year, be he seemingly forgot about the sport just like he did in college... If anyone is up to the task next year, I think Gatlin is most likely. I won't count Frankie out, but the Clyde Drexler look-alike isn't getting any younger...
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Conway
Olympic Medalist
Joined: 25 Aug 2001
Posts: 3570
Location: Northen California
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Clyde Drecshler look alike ???? Whoa ... LOL ..
Let me ask this question ... With the 100 being totally saturated with talent doesn't it seem like more than Kenteris is smart enough to focus on something where they have a better shot ?????
All this year proved for the 100 is that unless you can break 9.90 you're an also ran when it comes to the money races ... The 200 is wide open !!! Here's my take ...
Gatlin and Patton will focus here ... Darvis seemingly has no illusions about being the worlds fastest man, and I see Gatlin and Montgomery being different than Mo and Ato - instead of competing against each other I see them complementing each other ... Training together but each having an event focus ... 9.85 and 19.70 next year ... I see Patton breaking through to 19.90 range ...
The others will be as described - enigmatic but full of potential ... We'll see who realizes their potential and who doesn't ... And I didn't even talk about the Brits, Obikwelu, or the young man from Maritius (Buckland) ... All have talent and it will depend on how much they improve next year ...
Kenteris SHOULD have lots of competition ... Then he should have had that over the past 3 years as well ... Another wild card could be chambers who seemingly wanted to get involved inthe 200 last year ... I have no idea how seriously however ...
But if the chance for medals is not a motivator then the sport has taken a very wrong turn ....
Conway |
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR
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Conway
Olympic Medalist
Joined: 25 Aug 2001
Posts: 3570
Location: Northen California
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm ... slight .... Very slight ... 
Perhaps we should have a track and field look alike contest ... Something to pass the time between seasons ... LOL
Conway |
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, those photos don't quite do justice to the picture I've got in my head... There was one about 10 years back that was mind blowing, Evander Holyfield and a linebacker for the 49'ers who's name I can't remember just now...
One danger to a t&f look alike contest is we're assured of some joker pulling up some old East German women's photos that look like a male bodybuilder, and that someone will probably end up being me! 
Dan |
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Conway
Olympic Medalist
Joined: 25 Aug 2001
Posts: 3570
Location: Northen California
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Just a thought ... Not much track going on these days ... Course there didn't seem to be a lot during the season either ... 
Getting back to topic however, and perhaps this should be a thread of its own, but what defines a champion ??? Is it simply winning the big ones a la Kenteris, Viren, Bikila, Bailey ??? Is it winning a lot and running fast and setting records (or jumping high or whatever the discipline) a la Burrell circa 1990 - 1992 ??? Is it being close and then popping that BIG one a la Montgomery circa 2002 ??? Or is it being the total package, wins, marks, records, titles a la Bubka circa 1983 - 1995 or Greene circa 1997 - 2001 ???
While I respect what KEnteris has done, I find it hard to consider him a champion - in much the same way that I have difficulty with Viren's career ... Seems easy to prepare for one big one with out participating in the many battles along the way ... Their wins and marks speak for themselves, yet something seems hollow about the victories ... So much easier to cheer for a Bubka or a Moses ... And while many found fault with Chrisite I found him to be the ultimate dashman - ready to go at it any time any place ...
And speaking of Christie and the 200 ... If Christie could run 20.09 what might Chambers be able to run ??? Although I preferred Christies style to be more conducive to 200 sprinting ??
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Distance_Guru
World Class
Joined: 09 Mar 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| wrote: | | Evander Holyfield and a linebacker for the 49'ers who's name I can't remember just now... |
I'm pretty sure it's Lee Woodall. I see the what you're talking about with Fredricks and Drexler. Although I imagine they look more alike on TV since there you don't see how much taller Clyde is.
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Ah yes, I believe that's the name I was looking for!
Conway, perhaps a little bit of all the factors you mentioned? I also have a hard time with the idea of someone being considered a champion when they are so selective about when they choose to participate. Maybe I'm biased by my notion of qualifying seasons in a team sport, but one big race just doesn't seem like a championship season to me... In Bailey's defense, his record wasn't sparkling during non-championship competition, but at least he was there!
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Justin
Varsity
Joined: 08 Oct 2001
Posts: 312
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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A champion is, by definition, someone who wins championships. Donovan Bailey was a champion, so is Konstantinos Kenteris. No-one but us hard-core fans remember the grand prix races or looks at the series of times accumulated by the likes of Ato Boldon. Actually, my best Ato Boldon memory is the 1998 Commonwealth Games, when he not only ran like a champion but behaved and carried himself as a champion. I can't recall the 9.86s, they are just stats.
The desire to win championships is what separates Mo Greene from the rest. It was what made Ben Johnson different. And Linford Christie. Dwain Chambers has that same burning drive. Too many talented sprinters do not understand that fast times in May do not make a season - Shawn Crawford, JJ Johnson. The focus on championships in UK t&f is total - all training programmes are centred on qualifying for and competing in champs each year. And as I said in another forum, I'd bet anything you like that Ato Boldon would swap every 9.8x, all the GP wins and one-night doubles, for Donovan Bailey's medal collection.
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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We differ somewhat in opinion or memory in that respect. My lasting impression of Ato is those blazing fast races that are meaningless in the big picture and his lack of performing when it counted.
No question winning a championship is what makes a champion, but there's got to be more to it than just that. What made Michael Jordan more famous, coming out of retirement to win another title or carrying his team to an all-time record 72 game winning season in the process? People always complain about regular seasons being a boring tune-up for the playoffs in team sports, but I don't think there'd be much interest in, or association with, said playoffs if the build up and trials and tribulations were not there to create the sense of identification. So, while someone like Kenteris may be a champion in the technical sense, I see "his" definition of the concept as hurting the sport more than helping it, and that right there is a large requirement of being a true champion in my mind.
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Justin
Varsity
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Posts: 312
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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You are describing a different thing. T&F is an individual sport where individual success is ultimately the measure of an athlete's achievement. The defining events are championship events because the whole point of the sport is and always has been to defeat your peers. That principle goes all the way back to the Romans and probably beyond. The champion is the one who defeats all-comers on a set day.
The sport as whole, however, needs ambassadors and stars. A star may not be a champion - Ato Boldon is a star. He's fast and articulate and intelligent. Chambers is becoming a star too. Colin Jackson is a star. Sergey Bubka was a star; Ed Moses; Michael Johnson; Seb Coe; Carl Lewis. Athletes who raise the stature and profile of the sport through their actions not just in major events but at all times. Setting standards of performance, behaviour and sportsmanship.
Mo Greene's demeanour when losing all this season is what makes him a star not merely a champion. He never complained, never made excuses, just smiled and took it. Kenteris is not a star and he never will be (outside Greece, where he is a superstar of course) if he doesn't run more big meets. But why should he care? All he wants to do is win the 200m in Athens in 2004. National hero wouldn't even begin to descibe it...think Cathy Freeman, only without Ian Thorpe etc to deflect attention.
Donovan Bailey never quite became a star, although he was a champion.
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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You've got a point, but... They may be different things, but are they perceived as being different? Outside of the typical sports fan who thinks T&F only exists in the Olympics, I don't think so. If for no other reason than someone like Kenteris gets virtually no media coverage by nature of his limited competition schedule -- no one knows enough about him to have anything worth saying, and there's certainly very little public to identify with -- and no coverage means no awareness for most.
Dan |
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| Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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I'm happy to have levels of champion - champion, true champion, great champion; all these superlatives are used by commentators to differntiate the Kenteris's from the Greene's.
My point in entering this debate was to defend Donovan Bailey from the implication that his patchy record meant he was not a champion despite his golds. As long as you agree he is a champion, feel free to define higher categories above him!
And I would also add that to the athletes, medals are all that matters. As we have both said, the sport as a whole needs more, but we are not entitled to EXPECT of any athlete any more than that they try to win medals and behave with reasonable good grace. Thus, I also defend Kenteris...3 years, 3 golds, 3 personal bests. And he'll win in 2003 and 2004 as well, I don't see anyone at the moment who I think can beat him in a championship race. he is already acquiring an aura, especially after that devastating 19.85.
Justin |
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