Run-Down Forums

[Hammer]

Sorry last post was mine.

[Micah Ward]

That's taking a tough stand Hammer...and I agree with the general principle. I am a firm believer in individual responsibilty and controlling your own destiny.

I also believe though, that sometimes certain coaches and athletes just don't fit and maybe Webb is taking care of that situation now. I also wouldn't be so quick to blame it on mental weakness by the athletes. Even as athletes need to adjust to new coaches, the coach has to be in tune with the individual athletes and know how to get the best out of each one. So it is a two way street.

John Wooden was asked once what his coaching style was. He said that he had a different style for each player. Every player responded differently and it was up to him to figure out what worked for each one.

Now I will wait for someone to ask who John Wooden was.
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[Distance_Guru]

I'll save you that agony MW. I think that John Wooden is probably the greatest coach ever to take part in any NCAA sport. He won a ton of basketball titiles at UCLA. I've always believed that there were two parts to coaching the science and the art. There are lots of guys that are really good with the x's and o's or who can create awesome workouts. But that is just the science. The art is getting athletes to believe in themselves, their teammates and to work together towards a common goal. To help the athletes attain there potential through motivation and inspiration. And more so to guide them towards being the best person that they can be. And when it comes to the art of coaching Wooden was Michelangelo.

As far as what the exact reason Webb or any other talented young athlete fails in college, I think it is sort of like our debate on Kenya dominance in distance running. We'd like to be able to pin it to just one or two reasons but realy there are a ton. Coaching is a big one. When you've had success with one system you generally are reluctant to change. And adapting to a new coach, training system and team is tough. Being away from your family for the first time is tough on a young person. Not to mention that most college athletes go from being the one of the best runners out there to just another runner when they reach college. Another huge reason is all the distractions that a college enviornment has. I have seen first hand, both as an athlete and as a coach, runners quit running to focus on the social aspects of college life. In other words they wanted to spend less time working out and more time at the bar. And of coarse there is the college level coarse work that they must complete. Although I personally have never wittness a college athlete quit running so that they could improve there grades. I imagine it does happen. Now obviously most of these reasons don't apply to Alan Webb. At least one of these resons applies to almost every runner that either considers or actually quits running competitively at the college level.
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[Hammer]

I don't think that Alan Webb quit @ Michigan because he was mentally weak. I was talking more about the average college runner who has trouble adapting to their new setting. That runner usually starts to blame others for a recent drop in performance (New system vs. old system = root of problems; senario). I believe that most of those runners are mentally weak and PROBABLY won't become good college runners anyway. They probably relied on their talent in HS and when they were forced to work more, or different, they crubled.

[Hammer]

Now for Webb. I can't see puting a lot of blame on his HS coach for leaving Michigan. As far as I know he was a smart kid (4.2 gpa in HS or something) I suspect he wen't through a long process in making his decision. I don't think that he was taken advantage of in a fragile moment in his life. It's not like he is some confused HS basketball player who enters the draft thinking that he will be drafted in the 1st round and then never gets drafted. This is a smart balanced kid.

[Distance_Guru]

Hammer, I have to say that I think you're on the right track with both of your last posts. In regaurds to your post on why the average runner quit you are right on. I can't tell you how many talented runners I've seen completely waste their gift because they didn't want to work. Maybe I've been listening to Micah for too long but most of the kids that I've seen quit on the college level, were talented enough to be all state athletes (keep in mind that's all state in New Mexico and Nebraska not California or Oregon) on pretty much talent alone got to college and weren't personally responsibile enough to do what they knew was required to be a college level runner.

As for Webb I really can't say with any kind of certainty why he quit. I would imagine that a big part of it was, he was feeling the weight of being the next great American miler on his shoulders and figured he couldn't waste another year at a school where he wasn't certain to improve as much as he thinks he should. I personally feel he was hasty in his decision and that had he stayed his first year would have been nothing more than a hick-up although now we'll never know.
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[Micah Ward]

In a certain way I almost feel sorry for Webb. I envy all that talent but this kid (yes he is still just 19) has a tremendous amount of expectations laid on him. If he can survive with any sanity then I tip my hat to him.

Anyone remember Jennifer Capriati?
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[Dan]

This talk of pressure and expectatations makes me think Webb should read Michael Johnson's book, Slaying the Dragon, which I just read while on vacation. It reads a bit like a self-help book in places (which was the goal more than a typical sports biography), but he talks a lot about goal setting and dealing with pressure. MJ's approach is to take all those external expectations and internalize them as his own, in the process removing the fear of failure and making himself very focused and in control.

The book is a quick read and surprisingly open and [presumably] honest. He talks at great length about his reputation as being cocky and arrogant and his great failure in the Barcelona Olympics, which is in stark constrast to the published quotes from him saying that he has been nothing but successful at that level, always bringing home the gold. He doesn't even shy away from the fact that he ran the slowest leg on that '92 4x400 squad, nor does he mince words about his feelings regarding Carl Lewis...

If you can find it anywhere near the $2 Canadian (about 3 cents US) I picked it up for, it's well worth your time.

Dan

[Dan]

Here's another Webb article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A59864-2002Jul24&notFound=true

Dan

[Conway]

Boy you miss a lot when you're gone around here ... Perhaps Webb just put himself in an environment that was not good for him !!! He had been in a certain environment for a very long time ... And to change it all in one year is a lot to ask of anyone ... Let alone a young person ... And let's not lose site of the fact that the kid was coached by a man that took him to 3:53 before he was 19 !!!!!!

[Dan]

[Distance_Guru]

[Conway]

Exactly ... And I think that goes for BOTH sides ... Potential can be murder for an athlete too !!! Any time expectations are high there are only two alternatives - extreme sucess or extreme failure ... Look at Tim Montgomery in sprinting ... He has said earlier in the year that he was going to take down the 100 record ... The only way his season will be considered a succes is if he does it !!! Anything else is failure ... And he AND his coach will both be considered failures ...

Wish I was on vacation ... My mother in law had to have heart surgery ... So had to be gone for a bit ... But I am back ... And none too soon as the Golden League starts the end of the week ...

Conway

[Dan]

Sorry to hear that. Is she ok now?

Dan

[Conway]

Thanks ... She's home ... Got some work to do to get her strength back ... But she's gonna be fine thank you ..

Conway