Run-Down Forums

[Conway]

Was reading some articles on Athletics on the BBC web site ... Found it interesting that there were "issues" amongst the British sprinters ... Predominantly whether or not MLF was going to participate on the 4x1 squad for the Commonwealths ... As apparently that is what he is used ot running (being the top dog of the Juniors) and of course Chambers feels that that is his domain on the senior squad .... The other thing that I found interesting was that one of his reasons for NOT wanting to run either of the turn legs was that he is nursing a bad hamstring !!! If he is nursing a hamstring and running as well as he has been, then he may be ready to unleash something nice once the hamstring is better ...

Now regarding the conflict, is this something that happens with regularity or something isolated ?? I ask becasue it seems that whatever problems US squads have are reported all over the world ... Yet you never hear of this type of thing with foreign squads ...

[Dan]

I would guess these problems don't surface all that much until you have 2-3 guys capable of truly competing at the top of their level individually. Suddenly, respect becomes a much bigger thing...

Dan

[Conway]

Hmmm .. Respect or ego ??? I tend to think the word respect gets over used as well as misused ..

I would agree that that happens once you get a couple of guys who become competitive on the world scene, but I don't see Britain as being in that boat ... They have (in my opinion) 5 or 6 guys (between their 100 & 200 guys) who are very competitive in the sprints ... If I were ranking tiers of sprint squads it would look something like:

Tier 1 - USA
Tier 2 - JAM, GBR, TRI
Tier 3 - CUB, NIG, BRA, CAN
Tier 4 - Rest of the World

I'd be curious as to Justin's read on that .. But I see Britain as a major player already ... MLF just s makes them stronger and "possibly" puts them in position to challenge the US in the relay ... And INMO ego has no place in relays !!! Relays are all about putting the right people in the right spots ... That and teamwork ... The US should be a shining example of that as we have put ourselves out of contention in several major meets due to dropped batons which were the direct result of lack of preparation and/or cohesion ...

Quite frankly (and I see I am drifting off subject) the 4x1 record should have been taken down by now ... Look at what the US has: Drummond (still the best lead off in the world), Greene (fastest man ever and a great closer), Williams (nut case but the best 2nd man over the last few years - out runs everyone), Montgomery (excellent top end speed) ..... Put Tim on 3rd leg and you should have a 37.20 squad (or better) ... But the best we have done in recent seasons is 37.59 ... Excellent, but not a new record ...

Britain should be getting close to that range too ... MLF and Chambers are given .. I think Darren Campbell should be there and probably Devonish ... They should be good for 37.60 ...

[Dan]

I agree the Brits have consistently been among the top sprint nations and boast a handful of quality sprinters, but I don't see them having had more than one truly legitimate sprinter at any time in at least the past 10-15 years. Other that Linford, who would you say was regarded as a gold/silver medal threat at major championships? I think Lewis-Francis and Chambers may have arrived at that level this season.

Dan

[Paul]

I like Conway's view on this, especially in regards to ego vs respect. One thing Francis mentioned in "Speed Trap" was how Ben Johnson's attitude changed after Rome. He wanted Francis virtually for himself, not sharing him with the rest of the sprint team. It was the beginning reason for a short lived falling out between the two.
I need to find a permanent copy of that book. I quote that book a lot, don't I!! By the way, Training For Speed just arrived today.

Paul

[Conway]

Well, Christian Malcolm was a finalist in the 100 at last years Worlds along with Chambers ... And he and Marlon Devonish were both 200 finalists and Malcolm missed a medal by only .02 ... Chambers and Darren Camabell were finalists in the Sydney 100 .. And Campbell and Malcolm were finalists in the 200 fiishing 2nd and 5th !!!

So Britain has been there post Christie ... Actually they have improved depth wise since Christie becasue before all they had was he and Regis ... So Britain has made great strides over the past several years .. And I haven't even mentioned the likes of Jason Gardener ... They have actually moved into the number 2 position as a nation overtaking Canada who has lost their big two ... The 100 has been dominated by Mo but behind him has been a crapshoot in any given year ... And the 200 has simply been a crapshoot since 1996 save for 1999 when Mo ran there as well ... So the Brits are legitimate contenders ...

[Dan]

Finalists yes, but rarely are they taken seriously as medal threats, which was my point. That Sydney 200m was considered a joke, for the most part...

[Conway]

I agree about Speed Trap ... Where did ypou guys get your copies .. I think I am going to ordre it .. Its around $50 isn't it ???

I understand what you mean about the Brits Dan ... But in my opinion they have had a couple of guys each year in each of the two sprints that have been among the top 8 or so guys ... That makes them competitive ... when there is only one man in the world wiht a guaranteed medal, the others have ot be considered contenders if they are in that top range ... I guess a matter of semantics ...

[Dan]

I can live with that. I just think there's a gradient to the "competitive" definition and the Brits have made a pronounced step up the ladder in that respect.

I got my copy of Speed Trap through ABE Book Search:

http://www.abebooks.com/

Do a search for:

author: charlie francis
title: speed trap

6 books are currently listed as available. When I ordered mine, 2 or 3 were listed and the first was no longer in inventory. Six is more promising... I think I paid $30 + shipping for mine.

Dan

[Conway]

Thanks for the book info ...

I definitely agree about the British sprinters ... While they have been part of that competitive group, I think they are beginning to separate themselves .. At the top end I definitely feel that they are next in line behind the Americans (can't wait til Justin reads this later) .. If I were ranking 100 meter runners at this time I think it would look like:

1. Maurice Greene
2. Dwain Chambers
3. Bernard Williams
4. Jon Drummond
5. Mark Lewis Francis
6. Tim Montgomery
7. Frank Fredericks
8. Kim Collins
9. Justin Gatlin
10. Brian Lewis

Now for me that list is as of today ... I expect that it will change before the season is over .. Just kind of how I see them right now ... My point being is that I definitely see the British as among the elite ...

And I also agree that both Chambers and Francis have made HUGE strides this season ... This time last year Francis wouldn't have been on this list .. And Chambers would be somewhere nearer the middle ....

[Conway]

http://www.observer.co.uk/osm/story/0,6903,749439,00.html

Came across this article this evening ... Good insite ...

[Justin]

Britain has been strong in the sprints for some years (wasn't always like that, but since the mid 80s we've won everything at European level) but Dan is right that we've only ever had one guy capable of really mixing it at the very top and that was Christie.

Devonish is very good but likely a 20.15-20.20 man at best.

Christian Malcolm should have won the WC last year and has always been thought of as a potential world beater at 200m but has been really off form this year. Potential sub 20, but who knows.

Darren Campbell peaked with his 10.04 to win the EC in 1999. I don't think he's quicker than that. It's very harsh to call the Sydney 200m "a joke", but it was weird.

Jason Gardener should be the third of the three world class Brits, and for a while in 1999 he was among the very best, but terrible injury troubles have held him back.

Chambers has, as Dan said, been among the pack - fighting for minor medals and places.

Now, we have two men who would be serious WC or OG contenders if those events were this year. Chambers is, as I've said several times, a different athlete, a yard faster than before. MLF has hamstring troubles (and back troubles) because he's still growing - apparently he's put on nearly 2 inches in height THIS YEAR! This is why he's so scary - he has until September to be the first teenager under 10, he's annoyed with himself for losing to Mo Greene and yet he's not even fully grown!

The relay is always a problem. The UK has an astonishing record of dropping the baton in major championships and there is always strife. Chambers runs a wonderful anchor leg - in the European Cup this year he did a Bob Hayes on the field - 2m down to 2m up in 40m. I suspect Chambers will run the last leg and MLF the second.

The competition between the two - and Campbell, Devonish, Gardener - is what will really make the difference. Neither Coe nor Ovett would have been as good if the other had not existed - there's nothing like having to be the best in the world just to win a national title! Dwain is just ahead, which keeps him on his toes and allows MLF some relief from the pressure so the situation suits them both.

The UK championships (AAAs) (doubling as European Champs trials) are this weekend - two Brits under 10? I expect so!

Justin

[Dan]

[Conway]

Thanks for the insight Justin ... Your descritions of the guys are pretty much as I have seen them ... I think Malcolm, like everyone else in the race, blew his shot at gold in '00 ...Not sure how to describe that race other than to say that I have never seen a major race where all but one person underperformed !!!

I thought the British already held their championships prior to the Euros earlier this year ?? And has anyone heard how Chambers is doing with ihs shoulder inury ??? I would expect to see MLF in the gold medal position this weekend ...

And Justin and Dan I would be curious to see how yo would rank the sprinters at this point in the season ...

[Dan]

Rankings, hmm... Without looking through results (i.e. just winging it), I'd say:

1) Maurice Greene
2) Dwain Chambers
3) Mark Lewis-Francis
4) Tim Montgomery
5) Bernard Williams
6) Jon Drummond
7) Kim Collins
8) Azziz or whatever his name is

Not too dissimilar from Conway's list. :)

Dan