Run-Down Forums

[Paul]

DG: where do you coach at, if that's not too personal??

Paul

[training2run]

First a question or two to DG. When you refer to a VO2 maximum intensity run, are you speaking of a pulse rate right at the upper edge of the aerobic level, just before going anerobic?

Second, what the heck is the difference between a hard anaerobic workout and a speed workout?

Finally DG, thank you for putting what I do in terms of meters. 100,000 sounded so impressive, until I changed it back into Ks, and then miles (62).

Now to Dan: I can hardly believe it, *AGAIN WE ARE IN AGREEMENT!*

[Distance_Guru]

Dan is your school NAIA, NCAA D3 or D2. Were D2 and the way we get regional spots at nationals is every region gets two berths (which is more than some of them deserve) and then for every team your region puts in the top eight you get another berth. With Adams State and Western State in our region we are almost garunteed 4 berths and almost always there is at least one other team that is good enough to get in the top 8. Heck last year the women had six berths to nationals.

Mike when I say VO2 max pace I'm refering to a pace between 3000 to 10,000 meter race pace (depending on the length of intervals and race being trained for). Or 90%-95% of maximal HR in men 95%-98% in women.

And I think I said hard aerobic runs. In other words a regular aerobic run where the athletes take it upon themselves to run harder than they have to. As for hard anaerobic running that can be one of two things speed or lactate tolerance. Speed (at least my definition of it) is repeats of distances 400 meters and shorter at paces of 800 meter race pace and faster with a full recovery. Lactate tolerance is workouts made up or rither short intervals done in sets with short rest between repeats and near full rest between sets or repeats of 400-600 meters run at nearly maximal effort with full recovery.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

[Dan]

Oh, that's right. I thought you were DIII, not DII. The school I *was* at is NCAA DIII. DIII's setup is that each region gets one auto team, plus an additional team spot for each team that placed in the top 16 at nationals the previous year, with a max of 5 teams per region. Since our region had one women's team and two men's teams in the top 16, it will send 2 women's and 3 men's teams, respectively, next year. There's a similar rule for individuals, with I think one auto for any individual in the top 7 (?) not on a qualifying team, plus an extra individual spot for every non-team individual placing in the top 10 or so at nationals the previous year. It starts to get a bit confusing...

Dan

[Distance_Guru]

That's alright I'm still not sure how many individuals our region gets. I think it's two but I'm not sure. And now they've added a rule that if you get into the top ten in the region as an individual you go to nationals no matter how many individual non-quailifiers there are infront of you. All I can say for certain is it's best to be on a good team because those with indivduals it's really hard to know who your raceing to go to nationals, with teams it's a little easier to tell.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

[training2run]

So, it seems, what you call VO2 Max, is about what I'd call "B*lls Against the Wall." My term is so much more colorful ...and it's not confusing.

I guess VO2 Max is what I do at the finish of every training run - regardless of length? I certainly get the heart-rate up there pushing the envelope. Mad Dog (who's is learning the jargon ) www.training2run.com

[Distance_Guru]

[training2run]

Joe actually does his time trials on days when he's not training with me - just so he doesn't have to deal with me and the fng watch.

You left out Vishnu, Jehovah, Mammon (a personal favorite) and the god of runners, Hermes. Mad Dog Mike www.training2run.com

[SD_Runner]

Dan,

This is mainly for you. How many miles would you consider high mileage? For a 4:10 miler, 4:30 miler, 5:00 miler. How many miles do you run in your speed based training? Some speed based training can be upwards of 70 mpw. Just some things I am wondering before I put in my 2 cents.


Jesse

[Dan]

I consider 70 miles per week sufficient for anything up to 5k for serious runners (more than enough for most collegiate cross country runners), so that would be pretty high for a miler. With sufficient quality, 50 is about where I would peg the upper end.

I wouldn't really differentiate mileage levels based on race time, as that's more an indicator of capability than ability to handle a given workload.

Dan

[training2run]

Dan, I had no idea that milers ran 50 miles a week in training, or 5Kers 70mpw. That's a revelation !

Am I correct in guessing that they are running two or three times a day, fairly short (of course that's relative) each run?

With that sort of training, they could (if they were nutz like me), run a nice marathon by merely working up to a weekly lonnnnnnnnnng run. Mad Dog Mike www.training2run.com

[Dan]

I consider that the upper end, so not everyone would be running that much. That would probably consist of a long run a week of 10-13 miles, a couple 6-7 type easy days, and a few hard interval sessions totaling maybe 4-5 miles, with probably several of the days having 4 mile morning runs. That all depends, of course, on whether it is a training or racing phase.

Dan

[training2run]

Dan: That sounds like a good week: covers all the bases.

Would that be for a miler or a 5Ker, or both?

Looks to me, that by building the 13 mile long run up to 20, over nine weeks, and then tapering, a person could run a pretty good marathon on that program. Mad Dog Mike www.training2run.com

[Dan]

That would be geared toward a well-trained miler, but it would probably be enough for most 5k runners to do reasonably well on, at least as a starting point.

Dan

[Hammer]

Dan and DG- Regardless of the style of training (speed based and mileage based) don't you think that the life long runner would increase speed mileage and aerobic mileage???

So if either of these sytems are done poorly (for 1 season) the runner would experience the quick fix results.

I used to talk about training the distance runners was simmilar to training a medieval army: One needs knowlege of all of the weapons (bow, shield, sword, spear and so on; the distance runners needs: speed, endurance, stamina, strength, confidence and so on. The more successful an athlete is we will find that he or she is strong in all areas not just one or two, and therefore a coach needs to develop all areas.