Run-Down Forums

[tjh]

I missed my entire indoor season for a stress fracture that turned into an actual break and had me laid up on crutches for 8 weeks. I was set to be running darn good times (sub 1:20 in the 600) but sort of overtrained. Now, I'm having a mental block for getting back into it for outdoors. I should be around 2:00- I run my workouts at the right quality for that etc) but for some reason am stuck at 2:09 and am just getting ticked off at myself.
I guess the purpose of this is two-fold. A.) How do I get my mental toughness back (I mean, I could be running fast, but, I settle for place- if I can win with a 2:10, which I have, I'll settle for it)?
B.) Is distance greater/faster than 4 miles in 25 minutes recommended to improve times?

[Micah Ward]

For the mental toughness you have to have selective memory. Forget that stress fracture and the missed season. Past history. Now remember how those fast times you ran before the fracture felt. Good...right? So go get that feeling again!

[graeme]

"Mental toughness" is hard to maintain. All I can say is concentrate on running one race at a time you're happy with, then you'll probably find it easier to do it a second time... that works for me on most distances.

[Distance_Guru]

Here's a little piece of advice that on the surface isn't terribly smart but, mental toughness isn't about being smart it's about having more guts than brains. The 800 is perfect for this stradegy as well. The one thing that I've found helps get people out of a mental funk better than anything is running a race that really physically hurts and living to tell about it. So here's what you do. If you think that you can run around 2 flat then lets shoot for 2:02, now I will assume (I know that's dangerous, but hey, what do expect when you ask for advice in cyberspace) that you've been running fairly even splits or at the very least not going out to hard. In other words if you're running 2:10 then you're not going out faster than 62. So here's what you do. Go through your first 200 in about 28ish, try to hit the 400 in around 57 and then the second lap hang on and try to come back in 65. That'll bring you home in 2:02. I know it's isnt the smartest method of running the 800 (as a matter of fact I think going out to fast is the worst mistake to make in an 800) but, if the problem is that you're just not mentally pushing yourself, then the thing to get you going just might be a little good old fashioned early race oxygen debt. Of coarse this is assuming that you're already running smart, by which I mean that your second lap is not more than 3 seconds slower than your first. If your first lap is that much faster than your second then, there's the problem and you just need to run a race that is more even. Like I said usually the best way to run an 800 is with a first lap 2-3 seconds faster than the second.

_________________
Time is the fire in which we burn

[Hammer]

I tend to agree with DG. I have gotten myself out of funks with some dangerous (agressive) racing. It may not have the best results (in discussing time) but it may bring you back. Besides if you can go through the 400 in +-57 then you can tell yourself, "I know I can find the strength for the 2nd lap next race."

"Sometimes the best races are run when we believe our own lies."
-Speedy

[Dan]

First off, I would strongly recommend The New Toughness Training For Sports. Great book! Now I just need to get my copy back from the person I lent it to...

DG, I actually don't think that pacing is all that stupid. A bit extreme, but a 4-5 second differential between laps isn't at all bad at that pace. Probably 3-4 seconds as 1:50 is approached.

A lot of people preach even pacing in the 800, but I think that comes from looking at it more as a distance event (which it largely was when trained for in the Lydiard manner) than a sprint (which is what the successful athletes of today have been largely making it). Only in distance racing does even pacing really make sense. When sprinting, all the anaerobic and energy system factors necessitate using the energy where and when it's available, and there's no such thing as even paced maximum effort.

[tjh]

This morning, for instance, we did 5 400s (2 min rest) and my times were 60, 58, 58, 59, 61. Too slow for a 2:00 or too much rest between intervals?

[Dan]

Based on that workout, you definitely have the ability to run sub-2 now. I've always believed 4x400 with a one lap jog between (about a 2 minute recovery) is an excellent predictor of 800m ability. You were able to hold that pace with a reasonable recovery and add a 5th interval, so you are on the right track. In which case, I would say getting your mental focus right is the main thing, which brings me back to my book recommendation...

Dan

[tjh]

Hey, thank you all for your help. Now all I need to do is kick my own behind in a race (got a 4x8 on Sat.) and get a book. Thanks again, all

[Distance_Guru]

tjh: How'd the race go?

[tjh]

We pulled off a 6th... didn't get a split. I'm still looking for that book, too

[Paul]

tjh,

I hope you will keep us up to date on this post.

thanks

Paul

[tjh]

Well, I did what you all said... I went out on about a 57. I was well ahead of the pack and, being the lucky SOB I am, could do nothing as somebody's younger brother darts out right in front of me, sending me sprawling onto the track, thus spraining my wrist and ending the race for me. I just can't win!! First the IT band goes in XC, then the stress fracture indoors, now I'm getting killed by 60 pound kids. What the heck is next

[Distance_Guru]

Sounds to me like you need to buy a new pair of lucky socks. Or maybe run with a lucky horse shoe around your neck... to heavy... a lucky rabbits foot... to itchy... just pin a four leaf clover to your singlet.

_________________
Time is the fire in which we burn

[Dan]

Sorry to hear about the bad spill. Would you feel any better knowing one of the best milers in the country (at any level) has either been tripped up or left out of nationals for technical reasons something like 5 straight years?

By the way, there was an interview in yesterday's Runner's World Online with Peter Snell about Lydiard and 800m training. You distance buffs ought to enjoy it.

Dan