Run-Down Forums

[Conway]

Yes I would have to agree about that team and season .. You know the funny thing about that 4x4 is that only Young ran near his PR in the race .. Splits for that race were:

1. Steve Lewis (45.0)
2. Kevin Young (44.4)
3. Danny Everett (45.3)
4. Henry Thomas (45.2)

Both Thomas and Everett had split 43's in the past and Lewis was capable of a 44.5 lead off at that time (actually ran his 43.87 later that year) So that team was actually capable of going close to the WR at that time (2:56.16) !!! And note that Lewis and Everett ran on the Olympic squad that year that equalled the WR !!

None the less it was a great effort .. How many countries run sub 3 in any one given season ?? 3 maybe 4 ??

And how many countries can claim the sprint strength that was in that NCAA final ?? Marsh and DeLoach ended up becoming Olympic 200 meter gold medallists and both ran under 19.80 (19.73 and 19.75 respectively) ..

What would be the distance equivalent of an NCAA for the 1500 - school and final - as far as a single season ??

[Dan]

[Conway]

Last time I checked Kenya was NOT registered as an NCAA school !!! Try again .. And no I don't have a ready answer myself .. That is a real question ...

[Dan]

Have you visited Pullman lately?

Ok, seriously, I think you would need to look to something like DII cross country and Adams State or Western States in some of their (many) dominant years. I believe the Arkansas team of '93 (?) had some great 1500 depth, but how can anything compare to the dominance of a relay stacked with Olympic champions?

Dan

[Conway]

Hmm .. Don't know much about cross country .. .. Wasn't that around Lasiter's time at ARkansas ?? What was ORegon's best team for 1500 ?? I just kind of assumed that they mihgt be at the top of that list ... Washington State had great teams wehn Rono was there and after .. But can't remeber anyone that was in the 1500 .. Of course there is the most recent STanford squad .. That might be near the top of the list as well ..

[Dan]

Lagat is just the most recent in a long line of Kenyan Cougars that included Joe Kapkory and Pat Mutari while I was in the area. Watching Kapkory win the steeple, 5k, and 10k at Pac-10's while having enough cushion to walk across the line in all three was quite an awesome sight.

Oregon's had some very good squads, but I would probably place them close to the level of the recent Stanford groups, maybe slightly better. If you ever want to see something very impressive, take a look at some of the school records for UO and Lane CC. When you have Cruz and Barbosa on the lists (1:41 and 1:43), those school records are just a wee bit out of reach...

Lassiter may have been a freshman or sophomore in '93, but I don't know if he was a contributor then. I believe they had the likes of Graham Hood, Doug Consiglio, Siamuyse (sp?), and the infamous Schiefer.

Dan

[Conway]

What's teh story with Lane CC ?? They have seemed to attract a large amount of talent there over the years .. What's so special about Lane ??

[Dan]

Probably nothing other than their proximity to UO, which, indirectly, has brought in good coaches. They also host the high school xc state meets there every year, so they have a fair amount of tradition in their favor.

Dan

[Conway]

Was curious becasue here in California there are some JC's which have had tremendous programs for years and years and seem to always attract the top talent .. Schools like MtSac, Southwest LA college, Pasadena City, Taft CC, Merritt .. And amazingly they have longer lasting recruiting records (hope I got my meaning across) than many 4 year schools .. UCLA and USC notwithstanding ..

[Dan]

Aside from the difficulties that go along with finding consistency in 2-year athletes, JC's have two big advantages in admissions and cost. Most big state programs can probably get around those areas fairly well, but the scholarship pinch (Title IX) has to have made that a bit tougher.

Hard to believe Mt. Sac is a junior college, what with the amount you hear about the big meets associated with them.

Dan

[Conway]

I hate to say it, but, Title IX has all but killed collegiate track and field .. Don't get me wrong I am all for equal rights for women .. ABsolutely .. But as a local (state example) look at the programs at UCLA and USC .. Aside from the occasional very good to great teams in since Title IX (basically UCLA's super squads with Young, Lewis, Thomas, Marsh and Everett; their team with Ato Boldon; and USC's Quincy WAtts lead team) these two Power houses are a shell of what they once were .. Before Title IX dual meets between these two used to produce clockings of 20.03, 44.80, 10.06, 1:45s, 38.80, 3:04 !!! These are NCAA Championship meet marks now .. And that was in the late 70's !!! Imagine Clancy Edwards (10.06/20.03), Millard Hampton (10.15/20.10 Olympic gold and silver medallist), Greg Foster (13.00/20.20 Olympic and World gold and silvers), Billy Mullins (44.80/20.30?)and James Sanford (10.03/9.88w-barely/20.19) competing against each other in a DUAL MEET !!!! and I could come up with other similar examples for just these schools .. Tennessee and Auburn used to have similar duals .. Point being that no one can stock pile that kind of talent any more ..

Since Title IX was insituted they now have statistics .. Why can't they (NCAA) look at some kind of change int eh scholarship limits ??

[Dan]

The problem as I see it is that Title IX achieves the opposite of what it was intended to. The goal is male/female scholarship/participation equity, but football puts the numbers so out of whack that all it does is punish the other sports. I don't see how that can be a good thing unless the system is adjusted to take such things into account.

I'm not sure what I'm more impressed by, those amazing individuals' performances you cited or that you were able to cite them.

Dan

[Conway]

I went to many a UCLA v USC dual meet .. I watched most of those performances as tehy were being set .. I've been to several Nationals .. A few Olympic Trials .. Pac 10s .. All that good stuff .. But the most electricity and excitement I think I have ever experienced has been at a hot UCLA / USC dual .. And a high quality California State Track Championships (don't get me started citing stats from those!!) .. I think at one time the UCLA v USC meet was the biggest in the country !! Aside from having a pretty good memory those kind of events burn a lasting memoryinto your brain .. Imagine 1978 .. Millard Hampton had won a gold and silver in 76 .. Clancy Edwards was a transfer from SAnta Ana CC who had won State titles the year before (after winning state high school title 2 years before that) .. Billy Mullins teh state high school 100 champ 2 years before was also in the sprints and relays .. Add Kevin Williams who was the state 100 champ 3 years prior .. And a southern California crowd that included Don Quarrie, Lennox Miller, O.J. Simpson, Muhammad Ali and Ronnie Lott (just from my own observations) .. Add a few sideline bets taking place in the stands .. And you have hype to end all hype .. And then races that leave you breathless with Edwards twice coming from behind to record 10.06/10.15 and 20.03/20.12 wins !!! IN A DUAL MEET !!! Is why I know there is so much more potential in the sport !!!!!

[Dan]

Here's a hypothetical question for you: It's no wonder why you became such a fan, given the meets you grew up on. If you had come into the sport in today's climate, do you think you would have been similarly hooked?

Did the old USC-UCLA dual meets fill out all the events, or were they typically sprint heavy? UO-OSU used to have quite a dual meet rivalry, about 10-15 years before OSU pulled the program.

Dan

[Conway]

The USC v UCLA duals ran a full complement of events .. They cut back on nothing .. I mean the meet I mentioned in 78 also had results like 1:45.xx in the 800 by Rayfield Beaton .. Larry Doubley jumped near 27 feet if I remember correctly .. SC also had Tom Andrews who ran under 50 that day in the intermediates .. And the list goes on ..

Having said that would I have become the same type of fan coming into the sport today .. Maybe .. But only becsaue I enjoyed competing and running and plan on getting back to it now that my kids are a little bigger .. But as just a fan - NO WAY ..

While I talk about the sc/UCLA duals, I grew up in NOrthern California .. I say that becsaue it is supposed to be "inferior" to So Cal in terms of accessability to sports .. Yet I grew up going to: MOdesto Relays, Kinney INvitational (BErkeley), Golden West, Fresno RElays (when it was huge meet), Pepsi Invitational (at UCLA), Jack in the Box (San Diego), Examiner Games (indoor meet in SAn Francisco), Coliseum Classic (LA Coliseum) ... ALL IN JUST THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA !!!

While in Jr HIgh and HIgh School I got to see:

Jjim HInes, Charlie Green, Ronnie Ray Smith, Lee Evans, Tommie Smith, John Carlos, Steve Williams, Don Quarrie, Rod Milburn, Evelyn AShford, Chandra Cheeseborogh, Valeri Briscco, Willie Davenport, Mac Wilkins, Al Freuerbach and others all live and in person ..

John Carlos come out of the stands to run 92. in Fresno and dominate a good field ..

Steve Williams equal the 100 yd record at 9.1 in Fresno ..

Williams equal the 100 meter record at 9.9 in MOdesto ..

Don Quarrie run 9.9 in Modesto and equal the record (in different years)

Rod Milburn run 13.1 in Modesto ..

Maurice PEoples run a 43.2 relay leg in MOdesto ..

TEnnessee drop the baton in the 4x1 .. It bounced up and teh runner caught it .. And they won teh 4x1 !!! in Modesto

Later I saw CArl LEwis run his first sub 10.00 (9.97) in MOdesto ..

REnaldo Nehemiah run 13.00 at Pepsi at UCLA ..

James Sanford v Stanley Floyd at Pepsi with SAnford winning in 10.03 at the time the fastest non altitude FAT 100 ever ..

I could go on and on .. Point being that I was surrounded by hype and outstanding performances weekly .. ANd no one got paid a dime !!!

It was great time to become aquainted with the sport !!!