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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:43 am    Post subject: Traditional Running Reply with quote

From many articles that I have read comparing interval and endurance training, over 95% of them mentioned that long distance running was traditional and many coaches still favor them. I want to know from a coach's point of view as to why this form of training is still favored today. I've read the training section of this website and it too agrees with me that intervals or speedwork are the best.

Quote:
As a coach of mine often said, "the only reason for a long run (i.e. 12 miles on Sunday), is if you are feeling too sharp." Running long just makes you slow. Fit, but slow.


Quote:
Here is another advantage of high intensity speed work -- the effect it has on your metabolism. A common misconception is that long, slow runs will burn more calories than will short, fast runs. The reasoning is that although calories are burned at a slower rate, the longer duration will tip the scales. However, this ignores several important factors. The first is quite obvious; higher intensity means more calorie consumption per minute or hour or whatever. You could also argue that the time saved by the shorter, faster workout leaves more time in the day where you will still be burning calories if nothing else than by breathing.

But the most important reason why high intensity workouts are superior is this: Research has shown that the metabolism can remain at its highest level for up to 17 hours following high intensity exercise! Who's hungry? What would a running site be without a somewhat out of context quote from Once a Runner, "If the furnace is hot enough, anything will burn."


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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends a lot on what distance you're training for.

Dan
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mile, and anything else close to it. I can understand why distance runners have a high mileage, but I don't understand the use of long running for 800-2000m. All of that time put in for such a short distance, why is it favored alongside with intervals?
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've been covering every topic from 100m to the marathon... Wink

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. 800m runners are not training 150 miles a week without fast intervals. The stuff you're reading is more for 10k types.

Dan
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I've only looked some training programs, because most of them are classified. On Guerrouj's training it says he does 30-60 minutes of continuous running maybe again, because his coach picked it for him. Second, Morceli ddid 2 runs a week where they were as slow as 10 min/mile, and one other session being 60 minutes at 5 min/mile pace. Every training routine I've seen so far for any middle distant athlete has a continuous run that's 30 minutes or above, and others have one huge run they do every weekend. Everyone of them do intervals, but that's around 3 days out of 7. I remember one other middle distance runner at my old highschool telling me that I needed to build an aerobic base first. And then we have Jim Ryun averaging 110 miles per week.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

30 minute runs will net you 25-30 miles per week. That's a far cry from the 100-150 mile stuff you're talking about. Even 60 minute runs every day would be only half that total. The examples you're giving are nowhere near the extreme. A recovery run here and there does everyone some good.

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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've taken a "closer" look at training of elite middle distance runners. What I found is that most of them have long runs that are done at an easy pace, but what I found out is that most of the gains come from intervals. 6 minute miles done in a 1 or 1.5 hour session are a piece of cake for most runners. Look at Morceli's training for example http://www.cs.rochester.edu/~tetreaul/mtrain.html 5 out of 7 sessions he does don't quite deserve to be called "effective." Yet he runs a 3:44 mile. Now look at Wilson Kipketer's training. It looks like he does a whole lot more work than Morceli, but his mile is a 3:59. From an average, only 2-3 sessions a week are the primary source for one's gain. You could do hard sessions every single day, and still get to the same point as someone doing only 3 hard sessions.

What I don't understand is that why do elite athletes use up 2-3 days of every week with easy runs? Since when do easy runs help? I've asked a couple of times about running twice a day, and you said that most of them are easy runs, why? What is the benefit of an athlete running 10 minute miles if he can run sub-four?
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simple: Injury risk.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Runs should have a purpose, not all runs should be done at high intensity there are purp[oses to recovery runs - most of the effort even in the mile is still aerobic - neglecting that base will come back and bite you.

In running the impact also plays a significant role whereas sports like Cycling and swimming can spend a higher proportion of their time at the higher intensities...
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
Simple: Injury risk.

Dan

I do agree with Dan.
Could you become an efficient runner over a distance 10K and above by running 100 or more miles a week only?
Yes.
However, you will suffer a greater chance of injury than people who put a lower volume during some weeks and who run faster during these weeks.
For every Mr Snail there were three people who did not make it because they got injured or so do I guess Wink
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still want to seize the oppurtunity of making maximum gains. If I'm specific about injuries, there are none that I get. I do not have pronation issues, I tested this with the water test by the way. I rarely get side stitches, and even more rarely do I get shin splints. After running with weights for a period of time, my shins now are like steel bars. I also don't have achilles tendon problems, tarsals, etc. The only injury I would consider happening to me is tripping or getting attacked by a dog. Other than that I spend most of my time running on asphalt ever since I started to train. I am quite flexible too so no problems there either. I must say that the only injuries I've ever had since I started to train were shin splints, and side stitches. I've pulled my hamstring once in a 100m race and kept training afterwards until the injury was gone a few days later. I mean I'll run as much as my heart and lungs can handle. I never broke a bone in my life, and I seem to be on top of my vitamins since the last check-up.

One more thing, Jim Ryun's training was around 110 miles a week. Not only did he become the youngest sub-four miler of all time, but he also had asthma. Sometimes you become a better runner through through training this way.
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Hammer
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone has a different PERFECT training program and we all must seek it out via TRIAL and ERROR. The biggest ERROR runners make in attempting to be great is running too hard on easy/recovery days. They do not allow their bodies to recover and they get injured often. Jim Ryun or Gerry Lingdren may have been able to handle a quiclker pace on easy days or more mileage than even the most elite athletes and therefor they are BAD examples. You can't mimic their workouts because you (or no mortal humans) do not possess thier bodies.

It is not unlikely to find ELITE distance athletes who run VERY easy on their recovery days. They get to increase their Aerobic base (even at 10min/mile) and still recover from the previous workout.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hammer, it's been a while!

Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been busy. Running, coaching, working, ect..
Then I jumped in when I returned to use one of calculators Smile
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Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In that order, I assume? Smile

Speaking of the calculators, I've been itching to get one of those new 8.9" netbooks and load up my pace calculators and performance predictors on them for portable use... Those things are the size (and weight) of a hard cover book.

Dan
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