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~The Mile/1500m Run~
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Angelo Z wrote:
So as I'm running faster, my rearward recovery with improve. However, if that is true, that means that I don't have to do anything else besides running faster.

Err, no, you just repeated what you said the first time...

I don't know whether it came naturally for Bekele or if he worked on it, but there are various drills that are intended to work on an improved rearward recovery.

Dan
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol anyways, I'm mainly interested in how I can improve it. Too many keywords for google, I can't seem to find any drills that work on rearward recovery or maybe I already know them (high knees and skips)?
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fast leg type stuff, hamstring work, etc.

Dan
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whew, I just finished annihilating my legs back at the weight room! I went super heavy up to the point where I could only do like 5 reps. Since most of the last reps were impossible to complete, I just held the weight there with my legs until my muscles would slowly give up an lower the weight back down. I put all of my effort into form so I can make each set as intense as possible.

My weightlifting plan: destroy the legs once a week, every weekend with heavy weights only and add 10 pounds ever 2 weeks. The weight room only has machines so 10 pounds is the least I can increase by. When I reach my heaviest weights (after about 20 weeks or so,) I'll start to increase the time to 3 weeks before I add on anymore weight. After that, I'll work my way up in reps and sets. Since I'm basically lifting heavy, the weight will stay the same throughout the sets.

Example: -Starting weight for quads: 70 pounds. (90 pounds for 1 rep max).
-2 weeks later-80 pounds.
-After 20 weeks total, leg curl will be 170 pounds.
-Start adding a 4th set (2 weeks for it)
-Start Increasing # of reps to 20 (at a rate of 2 reps per week)
*32 weeks to being able to curl 4x20 reps @ 170 pounds for quads

Not everything is accurate, (the rep range for example). Part of intensity is to mentally push yourself further and go for one more rep. So if I'm doing 5 reps, then I'll most likely do 6 or 7.
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole post applies to leg work only for runners. I found this on bodybuilding.com;

Overview---------------Growth In Muscle Fibers Below
Repetition Range--------Type I Type IIA Type IIA Strength Gains
1-2 repetitions---------Very Low-----Low--------Low-----------Excellent
3-5 repetitions---------Very Low-----Low----Decent to Good--Excellent
6-8 repetitions---------Very Low----Good-----Excellent-------Good
9-12 repetitions-----------Low-----Excellent---Very Good----Good Within Rep R.
13-15 repetitions------ Decent----Very Good--Decent to Good--Endurance
16-25 repetitions------Very Good--Diminishing--Low----------Endurance
25-50 repetitions------Excellent-----Low------Very Low--------Endurance


Now that we know that low reps are for strength and high reps are for endurance and the middle reps are for size, which one is the best for a middle/long distance runner?

"Even the small muscle groups in your body have over 100,000 muscle fibers. A motor neuron is what stimulates our muscles to contract. It carries impulses (messages) from our brain and spinal cord to our muscles. One motor neuron controls anywhere from 2-2,000 muscle fibers. A single motor neuron and the fibers it stimulates are called a motor unit. Each motor unit mainly contains muscles of its kind. Also, the motor unit fires with a frequency that is conducive to the fibers it stimulates. Simply put, a slow twitch motor neuron will cause the muscles in it to contract slowly while a fast twitch unit will fire quickly.

The quicker it fires the more power it produces. If the activity is light, it will mainly stimulate type I muscle fibers. When it becomes too intense it will call upon type IIa muscle fibers. And finally, for the highest intensity movements, it will recruit the type IIb fibers. This is why type I fibers are called low threshold, and fast type IIb fibers are called high threshold. Low threshold because they are the first muscle fibers to be recruited and high threshold because they are only recruited under the most intense circumstances. Your body always activates its muscle fibers in this fashion.
"

First we are going to eliminate the middle reps because muscular hypertrophy is useless for runners. It still has it's own benefits of strength and endurance, but runners need the full benefits from a rep range. So now the question is, which is better-low reps for strength, or high reps for endurance? The majority of a distance runner's training is made up of the usage of slow twitch muscle fibers. If distance runners already get their leg muscle work from always recruiting the slow twitch muscle fibers, then what's the point of doing squats of 16+ reps? Running speed is judged by how much force the runner puts into the ground, not how fast he moves his legs. The more force you put into the ground, the more and faster distance covered while in flight. The higher the strength, the more motor units recruited right? It's not like the muscles (after a period of strength training with low reps) will only be good for when the runner sprints. The extra strength will affect the slower running too because more motor units will be recruited on average.

Instead of of strength training, the majority of distance runners progressively start outputting more force (running at a faster pace) in order to gain even more muscular strength in their legs. They build up to it. A 5:00 miler will do 400s at 80-86 seconds and he will build up to running faster 400s which in turn, will decrease his racing times. So why always focus on increasing leg strength with running when you can do it more efficiently and save time with weight training too? The thing is that runners don't need to do 16+ reps of squats, calf raises, etc. because they already take 10,000+ steps within a training session.

Another thing is that runners are afraid of gaining muscle size. Well as that chart shows, you don't gain much muscle size by lifting extra heavy weights. The muscle size is mostly gained in the 9-12 rep range where runners tend to always train at 9if they lift weights).
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today I worked out my legs and packed 80 pounds on this time (for quad leg curls). On Monday I did 70-80 pounds. 70 pounds was a little bit too light for a rep range of 5 so I did the last few sets with 80 pounds of weight. Next week will be will be with 90 pounds of weight. Once I reach my goal of 170-180 pounds, I'll start adding a load of sets (while still maintaining 5 reps). This is so I can build up my endurance after I gained my strength without increasing the amount of reps. Endurance requires 25-50 reps, I can't just start lifting 180 pounds 25 times. I need to build up to it and to that by increasing reps will mean that I'll have to increase it to about 10 reps which is for muscle size instead. So first I pile on a whole bunch of sets (10-12 sets) and then I cut back to about 4 sets and start at 25 reps.

My upper body is extremely weak, there is no way that I can squat a 300 pound barbell with such a skinny body. I'm instead squatting 5x300 pounds on the squat machine.
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today on Saturday, I cranked out 90 pounds on the leg curl. I'm really getting stronger because I had no problem curling 90 pounds. A few weeks ago, I tried to curl 90 pounds once for fun and it was way too heavy for me. Now it's really easy and next Saturday I'll curl 90 pounds again before I move up to 100 pounds (total weight is 210, almost half way there!). No gains in size, my quads still look the same. Once I can curl 210 pounds, that means that I'll be able to squat around 500 on the squat machine, hack squat and leg press-when my hamstrings are on par too. I've gotten stronger in my other areas, but I'm just using the leg curl as an example throughout because it only works one muscle group and it's easier to understand. I don't even have to worry about eating like a bodybuilder because my focus is pure strength, not muscle growth.

I'm still trying to figure out how I can add more resistance to my core training, I want to go down to 5-10 reps with a really heavy weight. There is a playground nearby and I think that I can hang directly upside down from the monkey bars and do crunches there rather than doing them on the floor all the time.

After I can curl all the weights on the machine, then I have to find a different gym where I can add as many plates as I want to for even more weight.
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made a small mistake. I've been referring this whole time to leg extensions, not leg curls.
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today on Saturday, as usual, I worked out my legs again. I did the first 3 sets of leg extensions at 90 pounds and since next Saturday I'll be racking it up to 100 pounds, I decided to do the last 2 sets at 100 pounds so my legs can "learn" what they'll be up against over the next 2 weeks. 100 pounds for the leg extensions was surprisingly easy but I'm going to take it slow and spend 2 weeks at that weight before I go up to 110 pounds.

I have noticed that my quads are much stronger when I run now. My quads will typically ache and burn as I'm climbing a hill or just running continuously after several days of running but not anymore with the extra strength. Once I get up to 210 pounds for the leg extension, my next goal is to build that up to 4x50 reps so I can get the muscular endurance for that weight. However, before I do that, I need to first start focusing on adding a bunch of sets while keeping the reps low. Once I get up to about 15x5 at 210, then the rest between each set decreases from 5 minutes to 2 minutes, then 1 minute. After that, I'll start at 4x25 with 2 minutes rest between each set, gradually building up to 50 reps, and then for the final finishing touch, decrease the rest to 1 minute.

I still haven't decided what I'll do after that. I've been thinking 2x100 reps and then 4x100. I think that besides maxing out in running like going up to world class/olympic level, the weight training should be maxed out as well.
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been thinking about mileage for next summer. The highest that I've ever hit was 120 miles but, I want to try and get up to 200 miles per week over the years. I'm talking about building up to an additional 10 miles every summer until I make it to 200. Alberto Salazar broke down and his immune system started to fail, but he was adding miles way too fast. Adding 10 miles in 3 months should be the ideal rate for building up. That's a .11 mile or 200m increase each day for 90 days. That's only in theory, in reality I won't be adding 200m each day Laughing

If the marathon monks can run a marathon every day for 1000 days, then it is possible to run 200 miles a week. It will take me 8 years to get there. 200 miles during the summer, then 5K training during fall-half way through winter, then mileage build-up again, and then mile training during spring. With an aerobic engine that immense, the speed work will be amplified to new heights.
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•London 2012 XXX Olympiad•
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have finished my 5K training 2 weeks ago but never ran a 5K because I didn't want to. It was mainly for improving my aerobic power.

I am getting ready for my mile training and after doing some research, I learned of a new type of workout. I used to normally think that running very short intervals like the 100m would improve my speed in the mile run. I am starting to implement "neuro" workouts into my training. The training will look something like this:

On Tuesdays and on Fridays; 8x400m @ 54 seconds with 5 minute recoveries. All the other days are easy runs/fartleks/long runs. After 4 weeks of that training, I will start to decrease the rest for the 400s so that it can become more of a lactic workout. The idea is to run the 400s really fast so that the legs and brain get used to that speed. If I wanted to run 50 second 400s, that means that I will have to run 200s at about 22 seconds each which would be somewhat impossible because I will require sprinting speed.
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ssteve235
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No if you want to run a 50 second 400, you have to run 25 seconds 200s...
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Angelo Z wrote:
I have finished my 5K training 2 weeks ago but never ran a 5K because I didn't want to.

Shocking. Wink

Dan
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssteve235 wrote:
No if you want to run a 50 second 400, you have to run 25 seconds 200s...


Nope, because you want to be able to run faster 200s. It's like saying that you have to run your 400s at the same pace as 800s. The shorter the repeats, the faster you'll run. So if you were to do purely 200m repeats, then you would do those at 23 seconds or less, nothing slower. Like Dan said a long time ago, you need greater speed over all to be able to run faster in a longer interval. If you want to run a 4:00 mile, you won't be doing 60 second 400s, you would be doing 57-58 seconds instead (not during the race, but when you train or you'll end up running a 3:54 mile instead.) I'm talking about training, not racing. Of course you'll run 25 second 200s if you run a 50 second 400 but to be able to do 400s at 50 seconds, it's almost impossible because you hit the limit and in theory, you will have to train at 22 second 200m repeats instead to be able to handle 400s at 50 seconds and running 22 second 200s as a miler is kind of impossible-you have to change your whole "running specialty" to be able to acquire that kind of speed which sprinters start to have instead. That was my point.

Yeah, the 5K training was just aerobic power training for me, nothing special and racing 5Ks would slow my training down because you need to rest more, prepare, and so on.
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ssteve235
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last time i did a pure 200 meter workout, 12x200 with a 50 meter walk, 25 meter jog recovery, i averaged out at about a 30 but my 400 time is 56, so im not sure wat you are talking about.
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