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[host]

Hello

Any comments on my training program?
I`am selfcoached and I just want to assure that I dont overtrain or not training spesific.
My goal is sub 51-50. PB last year 51

400m training

mon:30 easy+drill and strides
t::7*150m walk back rec 18-19 pace
w:30 easy+drill and strides
t:5*300m fast. 5 min rec
f:some plyos
s:30 easy+drill and strides
s:8*150m fast hill running. wbr
m:30 easy+drill and strides
t:7*150m wbr 18-19 pace
w:30 easy+drill and strides
t:5*300m fast. 5 min rec
f:30 easy+drill and strides
s:15*60m. 95% wbr
s:some plyos

[Dan]

Seems pretty reasonable to me. I'd try and get an occasional run longer than 30 min. in, though, just to build a bit more cardio for the late [burn] stages of the 400. The volume and speed looks about right.

Dan
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[Paul]

Dan, what are your thoughts on overdistance: like 3 x 500 in 70-75 sec, full recovery jog between.
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Paul

"Gaunt is Beautiful" Cassidy's T-shirt

[Dan]

There's definitely some value in over-distance, but it's a very fine line. I prefer to get there through a volume of shorter stuff, rather than slow the pace so much to hit longer intervals. Your long runs should be developing that aspect, no reason to waste your key training sessions on the same thing... Now, off-season workouts are a different matter, as you don't need to be nearly as focused in on a specific pace to develop.

Dan
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[host]

Thanks Dan!
Here are some replies to my post from letsrun.com forum:





1
Speed Kills RE: My 400m training(summer) 4/24/2006 1:26PM - in reply to 400m runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

A few things:

(1) Be careful about more than 3 hard sessions per week. Some 400 people can handle 4, but others get injured.

(2) There's no overdistance training in the program. Most will have a day like 3X500 or 3X600 @85% speed with 8-10 minutes rest. The overdistance gradually reduces to something like 2X450 a little slower than 400 pace. This is important for having the stamina to sustain is the last 25% of the race. I'd throw out the 150 hill session or the 150 track session in the same week and do 450's-600's.

(3) There's probably too little rest (and maybe too much volume) in the 7X150 sessions. These need to be run faster than 400 pace (and probably faster than 400 goal pace) to bring your 400 time down. More rest--more like 8 minutes--and probably more like 4-5 X 150 instead of 7. In general, walk back rest doesn't work for speed development. You need more recovery, so your muscles can recover more of their CP/ATP stores.

(4) 15X60 w/ wbr. Same issue with the rest interval. This should be more like 4-6 X 60 @100% with 6-8 min rest.


host:

Thanks for the advices "speed kills"
The 30 min runs are recovery runs. I dont know better ways to recover? rest days?
The plyo session is not that hard and I think I am able handle 4 sessions.
I will try to substitute one of my session with longer reps.

I am coming down from 800m, so thats the reason for my "short" recoveries. I dont think I am able to run the 150m, and 60m reps faster with longer reps. So whats the reason for the longer recs, if I am not able to run faster on the reps? should I give myself longer reps even tough I will not run faster on the reps?
How fast should I run the long reps?


Any comments to my questions or advices from "speed kills"?

[Dan]

I disagree with nearly everything they said.

Dan
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[host]

Are you ironic?

hmm. I dont know who I should listen to, but I think my program is ok anyways. Maybe put in some longer reps, but keep my short intervalls repetitions high in reps and medium recovery.

[Dan]

1) You're going every other day with hard workouts, so the 3+ per week objection is pretty much a moot point.

2) I see little value in over-distance at a greatly reduced speed. An example workout of the guy who just broke the 20 year old 400m state record (and placed 2nd in the world for juniors) is 6x300 at 5 seconds slower than 400 race pace, with a 3 minute recovery. If race pace is 50, then you're hitting 300m at 37 seconds, so your workout pace would be 42. That'll have a lot more impact on your 400m conditioning than 500-600's at a much slower speed.

3) Walk back recovery is plenty for all but the highest intensity stuff. Time your walk and see if you aren't hitting 3-4 minutes by the time you get going again... That's all you need to replenish the CP levels, not 8 minutes.

Dan
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[Indeurr]

[Dan]

[Paul]

I popped over to letsrun.com to check out the full post. It was there that I read where you are coming down from the 800. So you've more than likely done the over distance lactate tolerance stuff.

By the way, my thoughts on the 500 x 3 are from Steve Bennett regarding Cathy Freeman's training.

The job on how to organize your workouts is going to be dependant on when you want to peak and when your biggest races are. If you are still 10 weeks away, some overdistance should still be in the mix, occasionally, but if you are a mere 4 weeks away, Dan's ideas are the way to go.

disclaimer: Since I live just 50 miles up the street from Dan, I've had the opportunity to see him in action, and he definitely knows his stuff, especially in the sprints and shorter middle distance events. Plus, he has a rapport with his athletes that you seldom see on any level. Just thought I'd throw that in.
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Paul

"Gaunt is Beautiful" Cassidy's T-shirt

[Dan]

[host]

Thank you. I agree

[host]

What are your toughts about upperbody strength training for the 400m?
I`ve tried to do it, but with all the intensive running I need my easy days to recover.

How much will you benefit from being strong in the upperbody?
What excerises would you do? Now during the competition phase I can only train with my own bodyweigth, because of no strengt room.
Any bodyweigt strengt training tips for the 400m?

[Dan]

Arm action initiates leg action, so you need to be strong and have good endurance up top. Running arm motion with weights is my favorite, but anything that works the shoulders is good. Most upper body stuff can be done after the workout with no drawbacks, so it shouldn't be affecting your training or recovery time.

Dan
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