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Running 10 miles in one hour
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Rubber Duck
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:39 am    Post subject: Running 10 miles in one hour Reply with quote

Hiya. Right now I can run maybe 9 miles in an hour. How hard/ attainable is 10 miles in one hour? Right now I have a 4 run cycle:

1: 1.7 miles, run with 3 sprints of 550 m, interspersed with 2 550m recovery slow paced periods

2: 1.7 mile run, run at an even pace, best time about 9.20

3: 3.5 mile run, run at even pace, best time about 20 or 20.20

4: 5.1 mile run, run at even pace, best time probably about 31.5

Then I go back to run no.1 and probably have one or two days off a week.

What training would be best for this? Longer runs, such as 8 or 10 miles? How long might it take?
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Double
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could take a year, could take a couple months. It is all up to how many long runs your are willing to do. You have good initial speed as your 5:30 pace for 1.7 indicates. Even at 3.5 miles you are able to cruise fairly well at 5:48 a mile. However, your fall off is considerable at 5.1 as you go to 6:10 a mile. Now, all things being what they are, those are exceptional times, but you are correct in assuming you need longer runs. You need to develop the aerobic engine so you can have less decline over those distances and especially for 10 miles as it is largely run off the aerobic system.

I am primarily an ultramarathoner, but my fall off in 2002 went something like this over various distance: (pace per mile)

5k (3.1 miles) 5:25
half (13.1) 5:47
Marathon (26.2) 6:09
80k (49.7 miles) 7:12
100k (62.1 miles) 7:28

Now, I was over 40 then, so as you can see, aerobic training along with the proper touches of speed can lessen the fall off per mile. I could never do that with the emphasis on speed you use.

A sample schedule I use is:

Sun = OFF
Mon = 5 easy
Tue = AM 5 easy PM track work
Wed = 13-14
Thu = AM 5 easy PM 5k-10k tempo run
Fri = 5 easy
Sat = 17-22 medium effort

This is about my peak load when not ultra training. My ultra training is similar, except my long runs will go up to 30-38 miles at times and I will also do 14-15 easy on Sunday. Lately, I'm thinking of dropping Sundays all together.

This schedule isn't perfect, but it would be easy for someone to lessen the load and gradually build-up to what they felt is there max. I can get by exceptionally well on 65-75 a week for marathons and less. You may want to work up to 40-50 a week for a couple months and see how it goes.
Rest is a key component for me, but when I work; I work.
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Micah Ward
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Double said about the long runs. You have the speed but you need the strength of the long runs to help you carry that speed for an entire 10 miles. Just build that weekly long run and you should get the 10 miles easily.

BTW, Double did you ever move down to the steamy south?
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Double
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After a couple visits, we finally decided to stay here in Wisconsin. The family was a bit disappointed, but the bottom line was it is just too hot for me there. I lived in Florida 13 years prior and incidentally quit running during that time. Oh sure, I'd run for a couple months, but I hated it. I went up to 210 pounds there.

My wife and I bought a lot in Port St. Lucie, Fl. back in the 80's, so there is a possibility we will eventually build a small home there. Hopefully, a long time from now.
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Micah Ward
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't blame you for that decision. It gets pretty bad here in southeast Georgia but it still isn't like Florida in the middle of the summer.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Double is challenging Paul's title for most technical/useful detail per post! Thumbs Up

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Rubber Duck
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the detailed advice.
Double, is that schedule what you would recommend for me or something you do yourself?

What about if I did say:
1) 3.5 mile run
2) 5.1 mile run
3) 8 mile run
4) 10 mile run

Then repeat the cycle, with 1 or 2 days off a week.
Might this yeald results?
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Double
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think your cycle is fine. If it works the way I think it does then you would get about anywhere from 35 to 45 a week. Now it takes about 3 week cycles to see improvement, so after about 2 months you might want to do a time trail on the 3.5 or 5.1 mile route to see where you are. Run the 8 and 10 mile runs on how you feel and the shorter runs a little faster.

It is common for me to do 5k runs on the track to gauge my fitness throughout the year. I do them at 90-95% effort without any breaks in my current training to rest up for them. When I feel good, I run hard, when I feel tired I don't worry about the time. When I can run close to 17 flat for a 5k by myself on the track then I know my fitness is getting sharp.

For now, I think it is important for you to just run the cycle until you feel real comfortable getting the miles in. I tend to agree with those who say you should try and get the most out of the fewest miles before going for the higher totals right away. Go run, get comfortable, and then start running harder.

I don't know how much racing you do, but remember, a person almost always can run faster in a race than they can in training runs.

I will also warn you that advice from me seldom involves long training cycles or build-ups. It's not that I don't believe in them, rather I can get away with short training periods. That fits me well because I may pick 2-3 times a year that I want to run well. I get bored with 4-6 month training blocks of time.

Almost any plan will yield results. I have found what works for me and more importantly fits my family/work responsibilities in the system I posted. I'm sure once you begin your work you will find what works best for you to.
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Rubber Duck
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all your advice double.
I don't do racing and as for the training periods, this would be all the time, its not like I'd stop after a while when I'd achieved it.

By the way how far do you think you could run in an hour?
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Double
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a 15k track workout (9.3 miles) in 55:06 (5:55) at 5:30 AM yesterday, so I suspect if I concentrated on it I could get 10.5 on the top end.
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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think Double is challenging Paul's title for most technical/useful detail per post!


Wait a minute!! Are you actually referring to me, the novice!!

I have found all of Double's posts to be highly informative. My hope is that he continues to spend time here. Very Happy
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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rubber Duck, seriously consider signing on and joining this Forum. Many have started some personal training threads in the Rambling Runners section. Yours would be a welcome addition. Also, consider entering some local races. They are great experiences. I was almost 54 when I entered my first race in Dec 2002. And I come from a completely different athletic background. I have run everything from a half marathon with just over 20 runners, no bibs, no traffic detail, to Nike's RunHitWonder in Portland with 10,000 runners, middle of downtown, bands all along the route.
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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double, I see no recovery runs in Rubber Duck's schedule. What about the possibility of a 45 to 60 min recovery run between days 1) and 2), and between days 3) and 4), with the off day occuring after 2). This would also bump up his weekly mileage and limit the chances of overdoing it.

Double, I like the idea of the shorter training cycles. I have read a lot of what people say, but I just haven't bought in to the idea of 12 weeks of base and build-up training. I feel adaptation has occured already and 12 weeks with very little variation can be mind numbing. There is no reason, in my opinion, why runners can't float between phases without going completely to the competitive and peaking phases. The experts like to talk about all the great things that are happening at the cellular level, but those processes are going to occur at any phase. So a person could actually swing from Base to Transition to Pre-Comp, back to Base, Transition and Pre-Comp again, before moving on to Comp and Peaking. This would also lessen the transition between phases, when you haven't been in that kind of training for several months.

Paul
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Double
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:43 am    Post subject: Recovery runs Reply with quote

I like recovery runs. I have 2-3 days a week this time of year that I do them and usually will skip one a week. When I began running again 5 years ago, I usually only ran 5 days a week. The recovery runs still took more work than I liked. This may be the case for RD as well.

My advice to many people is run at least a little bit everyday. Even now for RD an easy 1-2 mile run will help as well as getting use to the idea of making the running a habit. For me, that little bit of running is 3-6 miles, for others it is more or less.

On shorter training phases, mine has been more of a personal preference. I generally begin ultra training in December and that season goes through May or early June. I then rest and have a go at some faster stuff over the summer/fall. I'm not old by any stretch of the imagination, but carving out 6 months for peak efforts isn't going to happen. The longer stuff through the winter/spring even after racing and then resting does has some residual effect as I can usually plunge right into strength/speed in July if healthy.

I usually get 2500-3000 miles a year even with periods of down time twice a year. There is definately some residual effect left over from the multiple long runs I get in.
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