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HUGE Breakthrough
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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:06 pm    Post subject: HUGE Breakthrough Reply with quote

Ran an all out mile today at the LO track. 5:59 !! Huge breakthrough for me and an improvement by nearly 40 secs. Haven't run this fast since my 20's. I am posting this even though I know Dan is yawning at this news, and I'll have to put up with him telling me "I told you so" for the next 6 months. Wink Thumbs Up

This was supposed to be a pace run. We were supposed to guess a time and see how close we could come to that without using watches or splits of any kind. I just decided to run all out. I followed a woman for about the first lap, probably in 95+ secs, then I really picked it up as others were tailing off a bit. I passed everyone in the group I started with. There was a group that started about 30 secs after us, and the lead runner in that group passed me right at the end, running 5:29. I figure my last 1200 had to be under 4:25.

Even though the track is 400m, there was enough crap on the track to dodge around (water hoses, portable water fountains for football, soccer gear, etc.) that I figured we covered a full mile.

It was 91 degrees out. Naturally, I still ran in my sweats. Rolling Eyes

How hard was this run?? Four hours later I am still hacking and I'm on my 2nd Sucrets!! Micah, you'll be happy to know that gargling with Samuel Smith's helped immensely. Surprised

Paul
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No way, that's awesome!! Thumbs Up Dang, I'm gonna have to come up with a new prediction for you... I've been filling Paul's ears with the mantra, "you've got a sub-6 in you, no problem" since February... Now I know why you waited a few hours after the workout to spill the beans. Wink

Must've felt pretty comfortable after a 5k last week? Nice 'n short.

I take it tomorrow will be either a very light run or a day off?

Man, I feel like a slacker now...

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's really scary?? Check out the equivalent performance calcs. Surprised
Now that I think about it, I actually haven't taken a day off since the XC meet. I better watch it from now until the 10K (Sept 13). I took a light 5K+ jog on Thurs, my cross training laps, pullups, pushups, stairs, followed by hill sprints on Fri. Tough Tryon run (close to 7M) on Sat. Weights followed by my 80 sprint 80 stride workout on Sun. 5 miles up and down Terwilliger from Niketown on Mon, and I was really moving with a guy who works at Niketown on the way back down.

Tomorrow maybe a very easy 2+miles. Thurs back to Pittock Mansion but I'm not going to push it.

I'm wondering if the key is my Sunday sprint - stride workout. I guess I would call it a middle distance euivalent to your cones workout for your sprinters. It has taught me how to run hard while still under distress.


Quote:
Must've felt pretty comfortable after a 5k last week? Nice 'n short.


I don't think I've been in a race yet that has felt comfortable. Surprised Wink

Paul
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What's really scary?? Check out the equivalent performance calcs.

Which part, the <44 minute 10k? Or the 21:07 5k which would've put you hot on the heels of my 21:05 last week? Smile

I can't believe you've kept up those workouts all week, and that after heading into the race last week thinking you had over-trained the previous two weeks... Me, I've taken it fairly light this week so as to avoid last year's stepping stone injury...

Quote:
I'm wondering if the key is my Sunday sprint - stride workout. I guess I would call it a middle distance euivalent to your cones workout for your sprinters. It has taught me how to run hard while still under distress.

That certainly would have to help, but I would guess the mileage and tempo work you've got under your belt is at leat as big a factor. You've combined so many different training approaches in such a short period of time, it would be difficult to pinpoint which one played the biggest role. Good luck duplicating it next year... Smile

The hard/float workouts are great for relaxed intensity, though. Sounds like an oxymoron, but you can really see it in the faces of people who get it.

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Which part, the <44 minute 10k? Or the 21:07 5k which would've put you hot on the heels of my 21:05 last week?

The sub 44 is bizarre to even think about. A 21:07 XC race would be out of the question (The Red Lizards are calling me Mr Sandbagger, shall I add that to my shrill Mr Negativity line? Wink ). I thought I ran just about as hard as I could last week. Just a week ago I was worried what would happen if I went out in 7:30 for a 5 or 10K!

Quote:
That certainly would have to help, but I would guess the mileage and tempo work you've got under your belt is at leat as big a factor. You've combined so many different training approaches in such a short period of time, it would be difficult to pinpoint which one played the biggest role. Good luck duplicating it next year

No doubt this year I have tried a number of different things to see what they would feel like. When you are gradually going from 15M a week to 25M+ a week, I would imagine pretty much anything would work, but next year's approach will have to be more systematic.
On the plus side, not too much that I've done so far has physically hurt me. But what is going to happen when I try to bump the mileage up to 30, 35, or even 40? This is where the planning will have to come in.

Paul
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Micah Ward
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outstanding news Paul Thumbs Up

The key to it all has to be the Samuel Smith.

Your training has been pretty intense. Do you intend to taper the 4-5 days leading up to the 10K? If you go into it well rested and with fresh legs I see no reason why you can't go under 44.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But what is going to happen when I try to bump the mileage up to 30, 35, or even 40? This is where the planning will have to come in.

True dat. You'll probably want a clearly defined pattern of hard and easy workouts at that point, with an occasionaly week (every other week, or at the most a pattern of 3/1 hard-easy weeks) to bring things back down a few notches.

Of course, with how much you've improved, it's hard to make a case against just sticking with what you're doing now. Confused

Until next time, Mr. Sandbagger...

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been very fortunate this year to have a number of, what I would call, breakthrough workouts that propelled me on to another level. Some of these I discussed in the Shamrock 15K thread, now on page 2 of Rambling Runners. By the way, Dan's first mention of a 6:00 mile occurred in this thread on March 28th.
Among them would be running with Dan in January. This was the first time I was able to do any steady state running for a full hour.
The 1/2 mile, 2 mile, 1/2 mile combo workout.
The Shamrock Race itself was a breakthrough.
8 x 200 at Willamette several months ago before the Lake Run. All under 40 with the last two in the 36's and 35's.
The Lake Run race was a definite setback for a full month.
First time under 3:00 for 800 as a 50 year old two months ago.
The Lake Oswego Alum 5K was a big breakthrough.

The one ingredient missing in my "program" would be any serious base training.
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Paul
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I may take an entire week tapering. My last non workout day was literally Aug 21 (State Fair). My next off day will be Sat for the 1st Oregon home game. I imagine I will drop my load by 30-40% next week.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The one ingredient missing in my "program" would be any serious base training.

That's what we were doing in the winter! Wink At least that's what it felt like...

Quote:
The 1/2 mile, 2 mile, 1/2 mile combo workout.

Based on how everything fit together before and after, it seems that was one of your most important workouts. Everything took off from there, as I recall. Amazing the difference a little misunderstanding can make. Smile

I like your thinking of a very light week. Even if you don't feel like you need it, it's bound to do you some good, both in short-term energy gains and long-term training. I've basically been running a moderate 3 miles every other day since the Alumni run (plus lots of weights and some basketball), so I'm pretty well rested. I should be getting some new shoes today or tomorrow, so it's about time to see how much I can bump up the mileage...

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Based on how everything fit together before and after, it seems that was one of your most important workouts. Everything took off from there, as I recall. Amazing the difference a little misunderstanding can make.

The interesting thing about this, is that at the time, you were the only person who picked up on that. I had expected more from Hammer since it was essentially his workout.

That particular workout covers a lot of ground for just 3 miles. You incur an oxygen debt with the 1st 800, followed by lactate management during the much faster than jog float for 2 miles, followed by an 800 sustained kick that brings back the oxygen debt even worse. The 2 miles inbetween gets tedious, and the last 800 lets you decide what you're made of!

I was thinking of trying to duplicate that workout again, with splits of 3:10 - 15:20 - 3:10. That would be a 21:40 3 mile on a track.
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Paul
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I considered our workouts in Jan to be base training.

I think my feet are going to love having a light week. My hamstrings are also a bit sore from Tuesday.

And I didn't tell you the whole story. Maybe ten minutes after the mile, we did a mile relay with 4 on a team, 4 teams. I was anchor for my team, so at least I had a bit of rest. We were comfortably in 3rd place when I got the hand slap, so I took off at a reasonable non sprint pace. I couldn't believe how dead I was. One of the faster guys was moving pretty fast on the backstretch. I could hear everyone yelling. I started to see his shadow so I tried to lift my knees to put it into another gear (actually, by then all my gears were stripped Surprised Sad ). I was able to hold him off by two secs. I was spent. We jogged 5 laps to warm down, and believe me, I needed all 5!
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Hammer was too busy being pissed at me to notice. Rolling Eyes

That middle 2 miles sounds rough. I can't imagine looking forward to jumping straight into another 800m.

Quote:
Maybe ten minutes after the mile, we did a mile relay with 4 on a team, 4 teams.

Details. Smile That does change things a bit. Sounds like the gas tank was pretty much on empty by that point.

Quote:
I started to see his shadow so I tried to lift my knees to put it into another gear

Ah, now you know why I veered to the left at the end of the Alumni Run last week to fend off the hard charging shadow. Wink

Dan
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Paul
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I was on fumes at that point, it was lucky I didn't stumble. Made my debut in shorts yesterday and today, by the way.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just in time for the 30 degree drop in temperature predicted for this weekend!

Dan
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