Run-Down Forums

[Hammer]

I've had this conversation with DG before. Let's see how it works here.

What type of intervals do you prefere? Bowerman Intervals (intervals at varying speeds and distances) or Standard intervals (1 speed 1 distance)

I have trained my teams both ways. In my 1st year of coaching XC we only repeated in interval workout. We ran about 30 differents workout combinations in a 15 week period. This year my track program is very similar to DGs in that I have about 12 different workouts and we repeat many of them.

[Dan]

I would add a third option: varying speed/distance but constant intensity. An example of one such workout I like is sets of 300/200/100, with each being near maximum intensity. Obviously, that means the 300 and 100 will not be at quite the same pace.

Otherwise, my preference is on same speed/distance intervals. Keep in mind I'm coming from more of a sprint/short mid-distance standpoint here... I think it's more important to dial in the desired pace in any given workout than to work on various paces. That's what the next workout is for.

Dan

edit: 200 != 100
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[RangerG]

Dan, could there also be 1 speed and various distances, say in one day for example? That's what I do myself. I like to stay on a set pace for a while, and then improve it one level after a couple of weeks, and so on.

That's just me of course (it could also be the codeine talk'n)
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If I could only run like John Capel...

[Dan]

You could certainly do that, but I don't see a ton of value in it. At the shorter distances, you'd have to be going too slow to benefit much from them, so why not just skip them and do something else more useful?

Dan
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[coachd]

"coachd" intervals?...hmmmmm

Well, it may be a coaching cliche to say the least, but the winner of the race is the person who slows down the least...With that as a guide I have always tried to prepare athletes to run longer at a higher intensity or percentage of their peak velocity for a given distance. No doubt you can accomplish this goal in any number of ways.

Rather than focusing on "pace" I prefer to focus on the distribution of effort. We all know that races are not very often run in even pace efforts (the physiological ideal)...The goal then is to distribute effort as efficiently as possible over the race distance and prepare athletes for the realities of racing. This is why I prefer using different distances and paces. You still have "benchmark" workouts that you repeat over the course of a season, they are just constucted a little differently than in Hammer's words "standard intervals". I used to rarely repeat a workout in a season--I have come to change that stance, somewhat for me and somewhat for the athletes---many athletes like to repeat workouts so they can see improvement in training and have confidence in their ability to race faster...I have always prefered to "let the racing do the talking"--but I have brought in the idea of benchmark workouts a little more in the last three or four seasons. However, our workouts might not be considered "standard intervals". For example, one workout we will repeat 4-5 times from now until May is (women):

1x 600 (at current mile pace)
200 jog (under 60 secs.)
1x 300 (at goal mile pace or faster)
recovery 400 jog
Repeat 4-5x

As the season goes on the 600 and 300 speeds will get closer to the same...the athletes are getting mile pace work in and practicing a goal pace within the same workout...is this any better than running 6-7x600 or 10x400 at goal mile pace and bringing down the rest as the season goes on? I'm not saying that...but I believe it more closely models the realities of racing and what the athlete will ask the body to do in the race.

The key of course is finding a systematic approach that you and your athletes believe in. Ultimately coaching is not about writing workouts as it is in building trust and confidence in what you are doing. Athletes that believe in what you are doing will respond to either method. Look at DG's girl in the mile this last week.

Now, another discussion and difference (I think) between DG and I is the placement of workouts within the week...but I guess we can save that for another time since I've already rambled pretty long here.

[RangerG]

I see your point Dan. What I was trying to explain (poorly) is that I get up on Saturdays & Sundays, and do a 5k loop at my current pace, then after lunch I go to the running trail and do 5 miles, again at my current pace, and then at about 5 pm, I will do a 10k loop. I do this for one to two weeks, and then I try and speed up a bit and repeat the schedule. I sort of slide myself into faster times. I carry the new speed into my every morning loop run. right now I am all off kilter because of having to use the treadmill. I am still trying to get the hang of me staying in one place, and the "road" moving
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If I could only run like John Capel...

[Hammer]

I enjoyed running under coachd. One of the things I liked most about the experience was the workouts (variety and the names). I felt that the funkier the workout the better. I think I always worked harder on the "strange or Bowerman" type intervals than I did on a more standard day (like repeat miles)

Most of my runners (especially boys team) enjoy that part of my training program. Some weeks I will get more conversation about a particular workout than I will the upcoming race. (I had one athlete who repeated the words "Marquis de Sade" and shook his head at me for an entire day. This was in reference to the name of one of the workouts.) When the weekly workout plan goes up my team usually flocks to the board to see what special workout is planned. In that manner I like the "special" workouts better. Especially for XC.

Now for track I change my colores a little. I stay away from those workouts so I can get more kids involved in a workout. If the distance runners are doing repeat 300s @ 800m pace the 400/800m runners can be in on the workout at the same time. So now I have 15 kids running a workout together instead of 9. It's more efficient and creates a competitive atmosphere that usually results in a good workout.

[Dan]

[coachd]

Hammer make a good point about getting more kids involved in a workout..this is much easier logistically with standard type intervals and larger groups of athletes

[Hammer]

gdsg

[Paul]

I love these training discussions, so coachd can ramble on, as far as I'm concerned.

[Paul]

[Paul]

I also like Hammer's opinion of the variety intervals and combo stuff. With standard intervals and recoveries you pretty much know what they're going to feel like. With combo workouts you can feel like you're in uncharted territory, plus you may end up doing something that you had no clue you were capable of, even if you do just one such workout a season. The 800,2mile,800 combo definitely did that for me last week!!

[coachd]

Paul...I put the 200 at "under 60" to encourage a quicker recovery jog as opposed to a walk/jog/amble type...the 60 secs. of course reflects collegiate athletes. Yes, the purpose is to keep the athletes moving fairly quickly and keep the heart rate up somewhat before the launch into the quicker 300 segment...I want them to still be feeling the first interval a little when they ask (tell, demand) their body to run harder.

[Distance_Guru]

Okay, if neither coachd nor Hammer will pick up the gauntlet I guess I will.

When it comes to evenly paced race vs a unevenly paced race that is more of a x-c vs track thing. On the track I swear by evenly paced races primarily because you have splits that you know are uniform. The distance and terrain between the start and the 400 meter mark in a race is the same as the distance between the 1200 and 1600 meter mark. In X-C that isn't the case and therefore running an even race is much more difficult. Also with the terrrain features, turns, hills and what not running an even race is not always be the best way to go.

With coachd's system one thing is for sure you take every workout seriously and since we would usually only see a workout once a year you did every one of them hard. There were very very few workout's coachd ever shows limited faith in (Daniels cruise intervals were the only ones I remeber). Every workout from repeat 800's to the Marquis de Sade and the religon thursday workout were done knowing there was a plan behind it and that you had to bust your butt to make it work.
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