Run-Down Forums

[Hammer]

OK lets take the extremes that I have on my team.

Fastest 800m runner = 2:02, Slowest = 3:30
Fastest 1600m = 4:35, Slowest 7:25

Having both of these runner do the same workout will have different affects on their body. But they could run for the same amount of time, for each interval, and have better results. for example they could run 6X70seconds instead of running 6X400m.

For an elite runner to run 1:42 would be comparative to one of my athletes running a 600m run which is a totally different race.

[Dan]

Yikes, those are indeed some extremes! I can't peg where exactly I would split groups up (trial and error or by feel, mostly), but I would agree that you should be having them do disparate workouts to maximize what each benefits.

Dan

[coachd]

Hammer--As you know, I have always advocated using time rather than distance as a workout parameter for very heterogeneous groupings of athletes. The problem arises when you have so many athletes that it is difficult or too time consuming to figure how far each athlete should cover in the prescribed time. Your groups are of course far more diverse than a collegiate group--but we still have say 5k ranges from 18 to 23...which is why I always say you need a wheel and some cones to mark your workouts(I know you use this). You can set cones at 200, 300, 400...whatever and let particular athletes know that they need to be getting to certain spots within the prescribed time.

Even splitting athletes into ability groups to run a particular distance becomes problematic when there is a very diverse group and a lack of assistants (as is often the case at our smaller NM schools)...the coach runs into problems with monitoring the workout properly.

I have used the following concept when applying the principal of time as the workout parameter:

800 race pace (current best)...run for 1 min

1500-Mile pace...run for 90 secs

3000-2mile race pace...run for 3 mins

5000 race pace....run for 5 mins

In college we go to 10 mins @ 10k as well

[Hammer]

Well are runners who run the same race at drasticly different paces utilizing the same energy systems?? Are the same things happening to their bodies??

I don't believe so. So why would they train alike?

A HS girl who has aspirations of being competitive needs to run @ the slowest 2.45!! If a runner can only run 3.20 that runner probably lacks the leg speed and overall endurance to run that fast. I believe that runner should concentrate their training on the extremes of the 800 runner's spectrem of training (pure speed and Endurance). Once those elements improve then they should concentrate on the other aspects of 800 training.

If they don't show improvement then they probably need to pick another event or sport.

[coachd]

The real question with, say a 3:20 vs. 2:45 800 runner, is are they running the same type of race? I agree that a 3:20 athlete probably needs to work on basic leg speed and endurance--but maybe more to develop some sounder mechanics(running economy) and a little confidence in their ability to race...I see a lot of HS and JHS 800 runners who storm the first 100, jog the next 650 and sprint the last 50 (for the most part they might as well be running a 5k)...are they using their energy the same as an athlete who has "learned" how to run the 800 to distribute their effort throughout their race and built up som lactate tolerance? No way. I do think, however that the same energy systems come into play (though at varying degrees). Two athletes who run at the same level of exertion, but are at different levels of fitness will naturally run disparate times. I don't think that means they are using totally different energy systems to complete the effort, again assuming they have learned to "race". As a coach you can watch an athlete race and make some subjective determinations (since most of us lack the ability to take blood samples and get lactate levels or whatever) about what an athlete "needs to work on". I know Hammer does this as well as anyone--I used to get excellent feedback from him when he was an assistant coach. He would watch athletes race and make excellent judgements about what they might be lacking....Like the time you said, "Coach, Ron just doesn't have any balls."

[Distance_Guru]