Run-Down Forums

[Distance_Guru]

I am curious about Francis' methods and techniques. From a couple of posts on the "what if" thread both Dan and Conway have indicated that they believe his methods are superior to those used today. What did Francis do differently from Smith, Kersey or the other influential sprint coaches of the last two decades?

[Dan]

My prediction was what Ben would accomplish given his steady rate of progression and supreme talent, not necessarily a statement that Charlie was a far superior coach to anyone else. I do believe he is one of the greatest sprint minds ever, but coaching alone does not account for Ben's incredible ability, just as drugs alone do not fully tell the story.

If you can get your hands on either of Francis' books, they'll tell you all you want to know (and more!) about his training methods. I know very little about the systems of the other elite sprint coaches, which is something we've talked about before.

Dan

[Distance_Guru]

Here's another question. As a result of Ben Johnsons failed drug tests was Francis also banned? I'm sure as a coach it would have severly hurt his reputation, but did the IAAF or some other federation ban him from coaching or is it a case of him being black balled in the sport without an official ban?
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Time is the fire in which we burn

[Dan]

I don't think the IAAF banned him, but Athletics Canada banned him for life from coaching Canadian team athletes. A bit harsh, if you ask me. Talk about not getting a second chance...

If what he wrote in his book is true, I would guess a major reason for the ban is how badly his success was resented by his Canadian peers. The same can be seen at almost any level of coaching -- a lot of people do not appreciate having the bar raised too high, as it makes them look bad or forces them to raise their own standards.

Dan

[Distance_Guru]

I have no doubt that having more friends in the right places would have helped him (it certainly never hurts). But lets not forget that he was the coach in what is the most embarassing Olympic (perhaps even sports related) scandle that I have ever witnessed. Ben brought great glory and then greater humiliation to the sport of track and field and Francis was his coach. I can't say that I falt Canada for banning him. Although I would be curious to learn if any of his other athletes ever got busted or if it was just Johnson. If there was a pattern of drug abuse in his athletes then that leads strait back to the coach, if however it was Ben acting on his own without the coaches knowledge then I might agree that a life time ban is a little on the harsh side.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

[Dan]

[Distance_Guru]

I not so sure about the lingering black eye being from an inquisition. I for one really see it simply like this. Ben Johnson ran an amazing race setting a world record, beating the premeire sprinter in the world (Lewis) on the biggest stage imaginable the Olympic 100 meters the signature event of the signature venue in the biggest sporting event in the world. Then he is revealed to be a cheater and is striped of his medal and record. This to me was the one moment that has branded track ad field as a dirty sport.

As for Francis, if he condoned or facilitated drug use in his athletes then I say to hell with him. A lifetime ban is exactly what he deserves.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

[Conway]

Couple of things ... Francis was banned by Canada in my opinon for the shame he brought on the country ... Not only did Ben test positive, but so did Angela Issayenko (sp), Desai Williams, and Mark McKoy if I am not mistaken (who then left the country and competed for another country whose name escapes me) ..

So the legacy of Charlie is very clear and not limited to Ben Johnson .... That is not to say that Charlies can't/couldn't coach ... All of his athletes had explosive starts ... If you ever saw a Francis athlete compete you saw them at the front of the pack at the start ... Always ... Technically they were all fairly solid ... And they all had good competitive demeanors ... All of the aforementioned were among the best in the sprints - McKoy in the sprints and hurdles ...

All of these individuals got bans of various kinds and were part of the Dubai (?) hearings/trials ... Interesting that ONLY Ben was banned for "life" ...
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Conway
Speed Thrills

[Dan]

Sure, that was the net effect, but that in no way counters what I said about the effect being in large part due to the Dubin Inquiry. That's what dragged the whole episode through the mud and prolonged it to the point that no one could forget about it. As we know all too well, T&F is largely forgotten about between Olympic years. In this case, that should have worked to the sport's advantage, but the suits with no foresight insisted on remaining highly visible...

[Dan]

I thought Issajenko admitted use but was never caught and that McKoy (Austria, I believe) never was connected to any drug use? I don't recall hearing anything about Desai...

Dan

[Conway]

[Distance_Guru]

I totally agree with Conway that the lifetime ban was more about the embarasment he brought on the country rather than the fact that he supported drug use in his athletes. As for conscenting athletes and the rest of it. I've said this before and I'll say it again, you win by performing the sport better with in the confines of the rules than anyone else. If you are outside the confines of the rules then you don't deserve to compete or to win. And to me justifing drug use by saying you only recommend it for people of a certain maturity level is no justification at all. I personally would rather see performance on the field than to have to watch specials on Ben Plunkett, Lyle Alzado, and other athletes that died before their time because of the after affects banned performance enhancing drugs.
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Time is the fire in which we burn

[Dan]

[Conway]

[Paul]

Has anyone bothered to read Speed Trap besides Dan and myself?? Has anyone bothered to go to Francis' website?? He actually has one, CharlieFrancis.com . You can download his 2 books as EBooks. Speed Trap is only $9.95.

I don't believe anyone else ever failed a drug test. I think they received suspensions based on testimony which was mostly coerced, something that would have never happened in the U.S. Angella was probably the only one to stand behind Charlie. She was the only one to realize that she was taken to places where she wouldn't otherwise have gone.

Francis' use of drugs was lightweight compared with what others were taking during that era. He was introduced to drugs as a way to maintain linear progression. I still maintain that some of his biggest critics and the athletes that complained the most were those that were not getting the boost they had gotten from their own drug use. All through the '80s, drug testing really came into its own as far as detecting steroids farther and farther back.

Count me as a huge Francis fan. I think the 100m has been essentially flat for 15 years, now, since Ben.

To me, the key quote in the North Carolina thread on Marion is this: