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Paul
Olympic Medalist
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Joined: 28 Apr 2002
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Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Dan, that's true. I used a number of poorly chosen words in my post. What I should have said was that I like the way combo workouts teach you to deal with discomfort and force the recovery issue differently than regular intervals. In Hammer's example, the beginning 800 is going to be at a fast pace followed immediately by a float at almost 5K pace, in this case a 2 mile float!, followed by another fast 800. I feel this teaches how to deal with surges that occur in a race, and also how to deal with the metabolic costs of running hills in the middle of a XC race where you don't have the luxury of jogging back down.

I remember that one of Pre's favorite workouts was the 30-40 200 combos that he was able to do on one occasion for 18 laps. Wow!!

Paul
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Dan
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Joined: 22 Mar 1999
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Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More of a grind it out workout, which pertains well to your sig file. Smile

Dan
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Distance_Guru
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Joined: 09 Mar 2002
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Location: Nebraska

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrote:
I like the way combo workouts teach you to deal with discomfort and force the recovery issue differently than regular intervals.


Then you would have loved running for coachd he (at least when I ran for him) used all kinds of strange combo workouts. They had changes of pace, changes of distance, changes of rest. Those were the workouts which inspired the now famous (or infamous) wheel + cones = pain equaision.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now then back to the topic, my team Smile

We had some good times, some average and a couple of below average. My top athletes ran well I had two women go 18:22 (a big PR) and 18:56 (an indoor PR) in the 5000. I am still kicking myself because of the fact that the faster of those girls (I feel) could have gone much faster (probably sub 18 ) if I'd gotten her into the fast heat. And the way the race broke down both of those two girls should have been in the fast heat.
I had two solid 3000m guys 8:44 and 9:11. Again the faster of those two should have been in the fast heat, but since in D2 there is no 3000 at nationals the ramifications are much less sevre than for the women in the 5000.
I was also proud of my two male 5000 runners 16:06 (a 19 sec PR) and 16:50 (a double digit improvement from last week). The faster of these two ran a wonderfully even and smooth race. The slower went out too fast and it cost him in the end although he made the mistake to a lesser extent than last week.
On the other side of the coin I had a girl go 19:52 after going 19:39 last week and being in the 19 teens this time last year. She's a tough kid mentally and her training is on a par with what she was doing last year. I think she might be a little anemic or something along those lines. I'm hoping to get her checked out for that sort of thing this coming week.
Also there was my poor girl who ended up in the fast heat of the mile. I felt like she could go 4:25-8 ish if she ran well. I told her to go for 41 second splits (that way she can go faster as the race progresses). Well the field went out in 37 and she went through the 400 in 74. For those of you scoring at home that's 8 secs faster than I wanted. With the predicatable result of having the wheels come off at about the 800 meter mark. She was less than pleased and made sure to let me know about it.

All in all a good meet. Other highlights were a girl from Barton County CC went 23.16 in the 200 ! Surprised , that's better than over half the men in the event. And she did it with a horrible start, she pretty much just shot strait up out of the block, but from there wow. Also there was a 46.21, 400 run by an unattached guy. One of UN's women threw the shot 53'11.25". On the down side there were 29 heats of the 200 to sit through. I'm sure Coway would have loved it, but for a distance guy it seemed like a pretty long wait to see the best athletes run.

Here is a link the the meet results
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Dan
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Joined: 22 Mar 1999
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

29 heats is a lot to sit through for even the most die-hard fan!

Sounds like your crew is making good progress ... exactly what a coach hopes for. Thumbs Up

Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2003 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had a home meet this week. It was small only five teams (including us) and with only two of the other teams being solid. That sayed we still had some pretty good races. My best girl won the mile in 5:17, which is a 13 second PR! I've been taking flack all year for supposedly not giving my athletes enough speed (sound familiar?). This was a little bit of a show down with two other girls from the mid distance group in the race. My girl ran steady early just off the leaders shoulder and with 300 to go blew her doors off. She told me after words she did it because she wanted to prove my theories on training. :supergrin: That made me feel very good to say the least.

That was the highlight to a very good day for my group. My top guy went 9:01 in the 3000 had it been a 3200 he would have laped the field as it was he just missed lapping second place. Also in that race I was finally able to get the kid that finished third to run even splits (I threatened to break something if he didn't). He'd been going out way to hard and falling apart so he looked much better today. Also in that race my runner who finished 6th ran a 13 second PR. In the men's mile I had guys go 4:34 and 4:50 solid times for those individuals both. Especially considering they both spent almost the entire race in no mans land. In the womens 3k I had runners go 11:04 and 11:24. The slower of those two looked much better this week than last when she went 19:52 in the 5k. She started taking iron supplements this week and I think that helped but were still going to get some blood tests done on her to make sure and get any problems with blood sugar or mineral deficiency fixed.

Here is a link for the meet results
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Paul
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Joined: 28 Apr 2002
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Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2003 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DG, are you still following the Winter Workouts outline, roughly speaking??
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2003 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roughly yes. I've added a little more fast pace stuff and have rearanged the workout order. I've put our fastest pace workouts on monday to allow for more recovery time, wednesday's we do VO2 max intervals at 3k to 5k pace, thursday is a 4 mile tempo run with tuesday and sunday mileage, friday is usually race prep or race and saturday is almost always a race.
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Hammer
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good job DG. Two girls under 19!! I heard that coachd's #1 girl ran in the 18.20s @ Texas Tech this weekend. What is the DII qual's for women's 5000??? Men??? Does your #1 Man have a shot as well???
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2003 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a slow track (under 200 with no bank) the times are 18:09.3 women and 14:59.7 for men to make the provisional list. On the tracks that both my top girl and coachd's girl ran their times (200m with a bank) provisional is 18:05.0. The automatic times are 16:59.3 women and 14:19.7 men on the short flat tracks. Most years the slowest quailifier is slightly faster than the mid point between the provisional and automatic quailifying times. I'm pretty confident that my top girl can run in the high 17:40's if she gets in the right race, my top guy should be able to go under the provisional mark although with him I'm not to sure how far under. With only 12 people per event making nationals both of them will have to run exceptional to quailify for the national meet.
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Hammer
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2003 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul- I'm sorry about getting to this late
Quote:
Hammer, is there a recovery split between the three runs, or do you go from one run right into the next??

This dealt with the 800-2mile-800 workout.

800m @1500-3k (90sec rec)
2mile @5k+10sec/mile (90 sec)
800 @ 1500-3k
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Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bet hitting another 800 with a mere 90 seconds rest following an 800 and 2 mile doesn't feel too good. Surprised

Dan
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coachd
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Joined: 09 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2003 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DG--Actually, the Texas Tech track is a 235 meter circle (no straight at all) and unbanked. The straight sprints and hurdles are run on a separate straightaway on a lower level from the main track. Very interesting set-up. The 400 and 200 times suffer--according to a few sprinters from Tech that I spoke with--but I don't think it hurts distance runners, the arc of the continous curve is less than a normal 400 meter track. Another interesting thing is the 13+ second altitude adjustment you get running a 5k in Lubbock! The whopping 3,195 feet of elevation really takes its toll. Of course our next meet at Air Force gives a 44 second adjustment, which I don't believe is enough (7048 feet elevation). Great job with your athletes and stick to your guns (as always).

Hammer...is that a little bit of "coach Joe" I see there at the end of your post?

Paul...thanks for remembering (the whole wheel/cone/pain thing)...now if I could just get a few more of my men to understand the concept of pain!
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
now if I could just get a few more of my men to understand the concept of pain!

That's a concept that's all too familiar to me, but not always the good kind...

Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a horrible day!

I come to practice and one of my men (9:35, 3k this weekend) is in street close. He's in the National Gaurd and tells me that he's been called up, he has to start the prep work to ship out on Friday so he won't even be able to run this weekend Sad . Then on top of that, one of the top three men I was recruited sent me an email to let me know that he's eliminated us as a choice for college. So I'm going to have to hustle on the recruiting front since in one ten mintue span I've lost a top five athlete that's already on campus and another that I was hoping for Sad. I have had some interest from a few descent kids and should still be okay but I hate it when you get a double whammy like that.
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