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Jafar
Water Boy
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Joined: 22 Aug 2002
Posts: 38
Location: SLC, UT

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:25 pm    Post subject: Questions regarding breathing... Reply with quote

I need some help with my breathing technique. Many years ago someone told me that during a 3 mile run I should be breathing in through my mouth, two in, one out. I've done this for a while, and it seems to be a hard habit to break. I've also heard I should breath in the nose, out the mouth. I've noticed that when I suck real hard, real deep breaths in through my mouth I feel like I get a little boost. Helps near the end of a run. But basiclly I can't get into a proper breathing rythm that seems right.

How should I breath?


By the way, if anyone is interested in my progress I ran a PFT with the Officer Selection Officer the last week and scored a 267 out of a possible 300. ran a 23:30. So I'm looking to drop at least another 3 minutes. I've dropped about 3 minutes or so in about 5 weeks. If I lose another 5 lbs it should be easier. I'm down to 190 right now. 20:30 at 4600 ft elevation won't be a bad score at all and assuming I maintain my pullups and crunches will give me a PFT score of 285. (Or a 294 if they would give me the damn altitude handicap adjustment, which they won't.)
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Dan
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Joined: 22 Mar 1999
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Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I need some help with my breathing technique.

To quote Nike, Just Do It! Smile

Quote:
Many years ago someone told me that during a 3 mile run I should be breathing in through my mouth, two in, one out.

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding the advice you were given, that's the stupidest thing I've seen this year, other than maybe the new USATF mascot. You should breath deep and not rapidly, but two inhales for each exhale makes no sense.

Quote:
I've also heard I should breath in the nose, out the mouth.

I think that's for falling alseep when you're restless... Many people breath through their nose when running comfortably and not in oxygen debt, but you'll get more air in through your mouth (and probably keep your jaw more relaxed). Air is air, shouldn't matter where it comes from...

Nice job on the whatchumacallit. Smile Physical Fitness Test?

Dan
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training2run
Varsity
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Joined: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 253
Location: CyberSpace

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 5:56 am    Post subject: Relax Reply with quote

Relax, keep your mouth slightly open, and breath naturally. Don't even think about it.

As Dan says in his quote "just do it!"

All those fancy breathing patterns began, about 35 years ago, as a hoax. Some people fell for it, and over the years the hoax has been elaborated beyond all reason. Dr.(Mad Dog Mike) Schreiber, perpetrator, www.training2run.com
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Distance_Guru
World Class
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Joined: 09 Mar 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Nebraska

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After many years of being around more fast runners than you can shake a stick at I can tell you that no athlete worth looking twice at is thinking about breathing. You just breathe. Now you might listen to the speed of your breathing to determine help determine effort level, but I can tell you that if you're counting your steps per breath, trying to breath in through the nose and out through the mouth or anything like that your wasting your time.

A funny story, when I was a senior in high school I was warming up for the state cross country championships (I was a shoe in for top 5). My uncle, who'd had two sons go on too play D1 football saw me run by. He asked my dad why I wasn't wearing a breathe right strip (a band aid over the nose which all the footbal players wear to aid breathing since they wear a mouth piece). My dad didn't know and my uncle became a little concerned. As I was stretching he came up to me and asked "why aren't you wearing a breathe right strip" with a worried look on his face. I replied "because I run with my mouth open." The look on his face was classic. Laughing The only reply he was able to give me was "oh".
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RangerG
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Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 132
Location: Chester County, PA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jafar,

When I started running again, I called cadence under my breath (so no one on the walking trail would hear me) to help get a pace and breathing rhythm going. I did not know any runners in my area, and did not know about running web sites and message boards. I just did what I learned in the Army to get started. I found that I developed a natural breathing rhythm. I really did not think about it until you posted it here. Everyone I run with now seems to have a slightly different breathing method. I even find my breathing changes with my pace, distance, stride, and type race (road or trail). I guess I may be odd in that respect (NO comments from Mike or Dan here please Rolling Eyes ) As everyone above said...Just Do It!! Very Happy

Good job on your PFT (PT) test! Thumbs Up Now try it with a full pack like we had to do Laughing What...no water crossing or high angle climbing Surprised

Ranger G Evil or Very Mad
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training2run
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 9:53 am    Post subject: No comments from Dan or Mike, hah! Reply with quote

Dear Video Ranger: You gotta be kidding! Me not comment, sure, right Confused .

I used to run while "singing (off key)" candence out loud, and still do from time to time. It's great fun, and really helps pass the time Very Happy .

When I ran with a small group of guys in Houston, we would often do it in turn and make up verses.

I learned it in the Army, just as you did. It sure sounded impressive against the clumping of massed jump boots. Dr.(Mad Dog -can't carry a tune) Schreiberwww.training2run.com
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RangerG
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Joined: 05 Dec 2002
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Location: Chester County, PA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2002 9:25 am    Post subject: Video Ranger???? Reply with quote

Geeezzzz Mike......"Video Ranger"...now that hurts Crying or Very sad

And you want me to pay to hear who's seminar at VA R&R?? Razz

I accidently called cadence out loud one day on the walking trail, and just happened to be passing 4 Marines from the local recruiting office (yes I was running faster than they were) and one guy called out....are you a retired Marine? I called back....no, Old Army Ranger. You kids gona catch up or what?? Wrong thing to say Surprised they turned the 5 mile run into a foot race for me....man was I beat Laughing They did give me a T-shirt Wink and I did beat 3 out of the 4, and the guy that beat me was huge Exclamation I had no idea that a mountan could run so fast Exclamation Surprised

Ranger G. Evil or Very Mad
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Paul
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Joined: 28 Apr 2002
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Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2002 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good story, RG!! Everyone who runs a race deserves a T-shirt!!
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graeme
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Joined: 04 Aug 2001
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that you should just do what's natural. Sometimes I'll subconsciously start breathing in tune to a song or something, but not when I'm tired Smile

What about belly breathing? Is that worth the thought?
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Dan
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Joined: 22 Mar 1999
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to disagree with those who have said not to think about your breathing or that good runners don't give it any thought. That only is, or should be, true once the good habits are already established. Many people are not efficient breathers naturally, so they should most definitely pay attention to it and practice until it becomes second nature. No different from running in general, really.

Regarding belly breathing, I view it to be as important as almost any other training element out there.

Dan
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Distance_Guru
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Joined: 09 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 10:08 am    Post subject: Huh? Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
To quote Nike, Just Do It!

Dan wrote:
I have to disagree with those who have said not to think about your breathing or that good runners don't give it any thought.


Huh? Confused

Those two statements seem to run contrary to one another. Generally when it comes to breathing the only rule I have is not to pant or breathe very fast or shallow. It takes very little practice (at least for me) just relax run and forget about it.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Those two statements seem to run contrary to one another.

Please explain...

Quote:
Generally when it comes to breathing the only rule I have is not to pant or breathe very fast or shallow. It takes very little practice (at least for me) just relax run and forget about it.

Well, if it comes easily to you, then you have logically removed yourself from the group that should be offering beginner advice in that area, as you do not have the frame of reference for those to whom it does not come easily. Wink

Dan
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Distance_Guru
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't know how to breathe you should probably be rushed to the hospital Wink

It really is simple, first off breathing during aerobic running should be involuntary. If you are spending a lot of time thinking about cadence, depth, timing breaths to steps or a lot of the other non-sense then you'll be lucky not to pass out. Just relax and run, the only thing to avoid is panting, breathing really shallow. Otherwise just breathe. After all we aren't talking about a triple twisting double flip here we all are born with the built in knowledge of how to breathe, so use it.

As for the two quotes. The first one seems to indicate that it is something that can be done simply and without much though. And in the next you seem to be indicating that it takes mental focus. Those two statement seem opposite to me. Confused
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you don't know how to breathe you should probably be rushed to the hospital

That's what I was jokingly saying with the Nike reference, but in all seriousness, we're talking about breathing efficiency, not learning how to actually breath, so that's a non-sensical statement from the standpoint of the topic at hand. Running is also a natural human function, yet you have made an occupation of teaching people how to do it better and more efficiently. Talk about contradictions. Smile

By "these two statements," I thought you meant the two points to my second quoted sentence, not the two separate quotes. I see your point, but as just stated, the "Just Do It" line was mostly tongue in cheek.

Dan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not panting or breathing too shallow are obvious to me, but I find that I can take longer breaths and it still feels comfortable, but unnatural. Since neither method makes me short of breathe quickly (as far as I've noticed) one is probably better than the other. In that sense it may be neccessary to think about your breathing, or test which method works for you.
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