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Jeff Shelton
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Joined: 02 Aug 1999
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 1999 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan,
Do you take any supplements? If so, what? Do you reccomend any or have you researched any that look good? I have taken a product called Endurox R4, in powder form. It is a good product because of the carb to protien ration for recovery purposes, but can't really tell if it works. Endurox also claims that a herb calles ciwujia has profound positive effects on endurance athletes. Any thoughts????
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Dan
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Joined: 22 Mar 1999
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Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 1999 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jeff,

The only supplements I take are of the vitamin/mineral kind: herbal multi-vitamins, vitamin E, powdered/buffered vitamin C, evening primrose and/or flax seed oil, chromium picolinate (despite what many say, it works for me to regulate metabolism and blood sugar level), and FOS (promotes good bacteria).

I've come to believe that taking supplements just because someone else tells you to may not be such a good idea. In other words, don't take them unless someone that really knows their stuff recommends it (a corrolary would be to avoid any product until the hype dies down). A case in point would be the FOS that I take. For several months, I was having abdominal pain that doctors and blood tests could not find the cause of. The health food specialist that I went to (probably the smartest person of that type you could ever meet) figured out in an hour of talking to me that my problem was an intestinal bacteria imbalance. He put me on the FOS, and my problem went away instantly!

Whew, that was a digression... To answer your question at least somewhat Smile , I haven't looked into the exercise type supplements. Of course, that same health food genius did recommend a few to me on occasion, but I was never sold on the idea. I've never heard of Endurox R4, so I can't help you there. What's the carbo/protien ratio? I'm gonna be pissed if it's 40/30... Smile

As far as an herb having profound effects, I'd have to call b.s. on that! Here's why -- almost any herbal product will have fairly subtle effects, at least compared to similarly oriented medicines, so the effect should be pretty mild. I suppose you could argue for stimulants such as ginseng, ephedrine (I think that's an herb) and caffeine, but their benefit to endurance athletes is often debated.

Dan
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Jeff Shelton
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 1999 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Per serving the Endurox has 53g of carbs, 30g of which are from sugars(fructose) and the others are complex. Protein is 14 grams of whey concentrate per serving. So it isn't 40:30 ratio! I am not sure I am sold yet but from everything I have read about sports nutrition, it has a good nutritional foundation for recovery.?.?.? I think there is a web site on the net concerning the Endurox product.
I am glad you brought up caffiene. What do you think about that? I have read in various books that 3-4 cups of coffee before a run can be good dependant on your stomach. Haven't tried yet, I am afraid my body will become dependant on it for the lift. As for ephidrine, it seems a bit more harsh and possibly bad on the heart; but even then some studies show there is no correlation. There is no doubt they work, but for how long? That is the one question I would like to have answered. I would think it would help to keep your glycogen levels high for the end of the activity at hand!
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 1999 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now those are numbers that make sense to me! I might be somewhat biased against the exercise supplements because my diet tends to fall into that percentage range anyway. But the Endurox numbers look reasonable.

As far as caffeine, I can give you a little more info, although it's been 3-4 years since I read what I'm about to cite... Smile Owen Anderson's Running Research Journal had an article about studies on caffeine consumption and how it affected mid-distance/distance running. Interestingly, the legal level for caffeine for international competition is something like the equivalent of 5 cups of coffee, yet over 2 cups worth or so becomes detrimental to performance! I think it was 200mg (100mg per cup?) that showed performance gains of 1-3% in events ranging from 1500m to 10,000m. The recommended intake method was flat Coke mixed with water. My friend and I tried it for a while, but I honestly can't say I noticed any difference (other than extra frequent bathroom stops before the race Smile ). I obviously didn't try it long enough to comment on its effect once dependancy is achieved.

I can also comment on ephedrine, as I took it one year for allergy problems (fortunately, allergies only affected me that one year). The first day I took the ephedrine, I was absolutely wired. I took it shortly before practice and ran the mile over to the track in 6 minutes, as opposed to a normal warm-up pace of 7 minutes. I think I had one or two good workouts, then went off it shortly after. The reason is that it was much more of a lift than my body could handle, even with the allergies. I would nearly throw up after only a couple of intervals, and my heart felt like it was racing dangerously fast. I don't consider those good things. Having a hard time breathing was much more comfortable in comparison!

So, I come back to just eating healthy and training hard. Maybe some of the other products can help, but who knows what the side-effects might be in the immediate future or somewhere down the road?

Dan
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Jeff Shelton
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 1999 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed! If one doesn't know the effects then don't mess with it. I will try the Endurox, and let you know ho it goes. I know, for me, I always feel better if I get the proper amount of protein. When I skimp, like when I tried out vegetarian methods, it hurt. Any explanations? I am a bigger runner at 6 foot 180, maybe that is it.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 1999 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did it hurt? Did you feel low on energy, or were muscles actually sore?

Dan
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Jeff Shelton
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 1999 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was low on energy! big time.. It also felt like I wasn't making in progress. I was at a standstill, training was stale. It is hard to explain, maybe it was in my head! I don't eat alot of red meat but maybe 1 or 2 times a week. I eat alot of tuna! Is this good?
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 1999 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's pretty much what I do these days -- not a lot of red meat, mostly tuna, fish, or chicken. Although, the majority of my protein comes from soy products I'd say.

I don't think I've ever been low enough on protien to have the energy depletion problems, but I know some people feel it if they don't have red meat daily! As a larger runner (I'm no fly weight myself Wink ), it's possible that you need the regular protein to sustain/build necessary muscle mass. Just a thought.

Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2001 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dan, i have been using this thermogenic called Xenadrine to boost me. I would take it 30 minutes before i went running to give me an energy boost. It worked great. Then i took it before my 1500M race one day, and i ran great! I was wondering if there is any side effects of taking a product that contains ephedrine, caffeine and other such stimulants. The only one I get is sometimes I can't fall asleep.

[Anonymously Posted by: 'Dan Dobra']
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2001 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not familiar with Xenadrine, but I'd stay away from anything containing ephedrine (see above). It's also banned in international competition, whereas caffeine is not, so that may be indicative of its relative strength (and possible risk).

Dan
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