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Paul
Olympic Medalist
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Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 1610
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2002 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We've got an accumulation week coming up this week


I like that term "accumulation week". In weightlifting it referred to backing off from an intensity 3-4 week mesocycle, dropping the intensity and increasing the volume for 2-3 weeks, then going to another intensification cycle for 3-4 weeks, then a taper for 3 weeks, then the big meet. How is it referred to in running??

Another question for the coaches out there: How important is your flat land training for the mere sensation of speed?? I know that hills will increase your strength and some people like Shorter have said that running hills is like doing sprint training in secret, but even though hills represent a lot of work, you are not moving that fast.
Wetmore alludes to something about this in his interview when he talks about altitude training vs sea level training.

Paul
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
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Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2002 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the intensity of the hills is much more important than the actual speed. Your muscles don't know how fast you're covering the inclined distance, nor do they really know that the regular stride projection is covering less ground than normal, only how hard they are being pushed. The net effect should be pretty similar to that same intensity on the flats, which is why I disapprove of non-intense hill slogging and am highly in favor of maximum intensity hill sprints. A hill by itself has virtually no effect on conditioning. Garbage in, garbage out...

Slightly off topic, though. Smile

Dan
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Distance_Guru
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Joined: 09 Mar 2002
Posts: 1280
Location: Nebraska

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2002 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, you hit it right on the head. As far as flat land training, it is nice to be able to get on a flat run and really go fast but all in all it's about running hard as opposed to running on flat vs running over hilly terrain.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2002 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correction. I was looking at the results again and it turns out that my previous statement about the ladies beating Central Missouri is false. They were trying a brand new timing system at the race where the athletes just wair hip numbers and are video taped at the finish. They decided to go with no back up name tags or place markers given to the athletes while they were in the shoot, which is a bad thing if your automated timing system goes down, which it did. So the team scores were all fouled up and from what my and other athletes tell me the times weren't much better. I am usually not at the finish area when most of my athletes finish since I'm out on the coarse screaming at my runners that are still running. So what I've done is go back through the inaccurate results I have and scored them the best I could, throwing out the D1 runners, unattached runners and athletes running for a school that didn't have a complete team. We were 6th with 205 in the college Division behind Wartburg 42, Concordia 97, UNO 102, Central Mo 172, and Butler CC 191. So not bad but not as good as we would have liked. Gosh that pack of UNO's is going to be tough to beat.

And Dan I think Wartburg must be a D3 school since they're not D1 and they aren't in the D2 or NAIA rankings. Any info on that team, they sure are good.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2002 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's always frustrating to find out after the race that the timing and results were screwed up. Sad Having spent the past 4 years doing both for track and XC meets, I am particularly pained by such things.

I'm familiar with Wartburg, but this is interesting... I don't have them in the college links, and looking them up, it appears I don't even have their conference (d3) !! Might be some new conference structuring I wasn't aware of...

www.wartburg.edu
http://www.go-knights.net/
http://www.iowaconference.com/

Looks like I've got some work to do...

Dan
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Distance_Guru
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Location: Nebraska

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked on raceberryjam.com and they're ranked 6th in d3. Wow if their 6 then those top 5 must be unbelieveable. Of coarse rankings for cross country, particularly in the smaller college divisions are notoriously inaccurate. That due as much to coaches only running partial squads a lot of the time and with lesser known athletes that these schools get umproving a large amount over a short time and what not. Throw in regional bias's and you've got a receipe for worthless rankings.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Team Guru Update: No race this weekend. We're hosting a huge high school meet today so it wouldn't really be fair to ask athletes to race travel and then spend 4 hours monday working a meet. I added a third quaility workout last week since we didn't race. My freshman guys are finally starting to come around. The runner whose been running sixth for me has made some huge steps in the last two weeks, his workouts are telling me that he's ready to go 27:30ish although generally freshman workout better than they race, it's easier for them to focus for say four 2000 meter repeats than it is for an entire 8000 meter race. However I am expecting him to have a break out race this week when we go to Oklahoma State. It's the biggest meet of our regular season in terms of who we'll be racing and also the long trip before hand is something that's good for the kids to experience. We'll be seeing Ft Hay's and New Mexico Highlands (my alma matter, coachd included). Ft. Hays is better on the men's side than either Team Guru or NMHU. But the race between my girls and the Highlands girls should be very close. We both have fairly deep teams with a top runner that should challenge for a individual quailifier if either of our teams miss quailifying to nationals.

Plus it will be good to see coachd, he and I always seem to have at least as much fun as our athletes when we get together.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Team Guru update: The new polls are out this week and to my total surprise the women broke into the regional rankings, we're 9th Surprised Smile Thumbs Up . It about figures that we can race like studs for weeks on end and nothing. We take a week off and all of a sudden we're in the polls

The only problem, we bumped coachd and the Highlands girls out of the rankings. Which means he'll have them fired up for our meeting this weekend. His men also took a slip, they ran at home and raced a very tough South Plains team that was loaded with a bunch of foregin athletes, with only a few other pretty weak teams in the race that undoubtedly hurt their rankings. Of coarse with a high profile meet saturday we should have a better understanding of who really is where in terms of the pecking order.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those polls are a funny thing. I was just hearing some details of how the DIII poll works, and lets just say some of the requirements are as unintuitive as you could imagine... I've also noticed that taking a week off often helps and racing only a few people can hurt tremendously (Nebraska Wesleyan is barely in the top 20 after being #1 two weeks ago). As long as the voting puts your team in a good light, nothing to worry about! Smile

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Distance_Guru
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Location: Nebraska

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except possibly being ranked too high. When I was a Sr, my school was ranked as high as 8th nationally, we weren't nearly that good. We finished 17th out of 17 teams at nationals that year. And although we weren't nearly as bad as that race. In which almost the entire team laid an egg (I personally went through the mile in what is still my one mile PR of 4:24, with an All American or bust attitude. I busted Sad ) . We didn't belong ranked any higher than 13th or so. But still it's nice to get a little credit for your good racing, by seeing your team in the rankings.

As I'm sure you already know don't count out Weslyan. One thing I have noticed about them that along with not running all their athletes another thing they'll do is take all or parts of races very easy. Last year at a race where the director told the Weslyan coach to run everyone or don't show up. The NWU guys ran the first two and a half miles at about 5:45-50 pace and then sped up to race pace after that. Resulting in some very slow times. But they are talented and they are for real, let there be no doubt about that.
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Paul
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Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I think its time to hit UNK up for a raise!! Wink

By the way, did you get a dressing down from coachd after your melt down following a 4:24 mile!!?? Rolling Eyes Surprised

Paul
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2002 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good too hear from you Paul Smile

wrote:
Personally, I think its time to hit UNK up for a raise!!


You have no idea how right you are.

My coach never got made at athletes for being agressive. He always wanted us to go for it. One of my favorite line is "I can live with disappointment, but not regret." In other words go out there and try and run the race of your life, if you do that's great, if you blow up trying at least you don't have to wonder what you could have done had you gone for it.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YYEEEHHHHAAAWWWWW!!!!!! Very Happy

We just got back from the OSU Cowboy Jamboree. My women won!!!! The entire team seemed to get together and decide to all have a good day at once.

Time.....Team place.........Overall Place
18:55...........2........................3
19:39..........11......................14
19:58..........18......................21
20:14..........26......................29
20:15..........27......................30
20:18.........(29).....................32
20:44.........(46).....................51

Total Score:84
Average time: 19:48 (1:38:59)

I really wish that Central Missouri and Abilene Christian had run their women in the college race instead of the University (aka D1) race. They are nationally ranked 16th and 19th respectivly. And just taking the times that my girls ran and subing them into the university race we would have beaten CMSU by ten points and ACU by 21. They are ranked 1 and 2 in the south centeral region right now. What I wouldn't give to be in that region instead of in the brutally tough region we're in. I may try to get a hold of the guy that's incharge of the polling and make sure he knows how we stack up against these teams. Although as I've said before, the pollsters usually don't like to admit that the 9th ranked team in one region is better than the 1st ranked team in another, even if it is the truth.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My men also ran well. Finishing 7th without the runner that usually runs fourth for us. You'll have to forgive me, my copy of the men's race results walked off. We were 25:5# 5th, 26:2# 10th, 26:58 20th, 28:05 60th and 28:3# 74th. The times are pretty close some I'm sure about some I only remeber plus or minus about 10 seconds. The places are there scoring places, in other words that's where they were when you throw out the unattached and incomplete teams. My one and two ran well though not exceedingly so, still a good solid race. My third through fifth runners all PR'd. My fourth runner may set some kind of world record for most improvement in a single season. He didn't break 30 at South Dakota. He and my 5th runner (both freshmen) have really made big strides in the last week, mainly in their ability to focus and in thier confidence. My number 3 and I have been really developing a bond with these two young guys who are also starting to come out of their shells personality wise. As I like to say they are making the transition from being highschool runners running in college to being college runners. They took some big steps on that journey today. Smile

So all told I believe we had a total of 8 cross country PR's today (3 men, 5 women) and one team trophy. If I had days like this more often I might have to write a book. And of coarse since those who know don't tell there is nothing stopping me Wink
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats!!! Smile Sounds like that must be a pretty tough course, based on the times?

Dan
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