Run-Down Forums

[Guest]

Dan, if the Kenyans train at 90 percent of their heartrate, and for a long time, how many of them become victim to overtraining? I heard that after one or two good years of racing and winning, some of the Kenyans are done for like at the age of 24. Many seem to be able handle the running stress, but what percentage handle it and what percentage just break down?

[Dan]

Many of them clearly do, but my question is, so what? (As an aside, keep in mind that many Africans' birth certificates are notoriously inaccurate, so many Kenyans are older than they are listed at and might have longer careers than is immediately obvious from looking at their "age".) I would venture to guess that darn near 100% of competitive athletes would rather aim for the highest levels than for a long career. The latter is nice when you get there, but it doesn't make for much of a goal by itself.

Dan

[Hammer]

The reason you only hear about some kenyans for a couple of years is that in that time they earn enough money to support their familes for the rest of their life so they retire and return home. It has nothing to to with overtraining.

The body will adapt to most any training stimulus. Especially when you introduce that stimulus early in life and continue that lifestyle on a consistant basis.

[Dan]

I've heard that theory quite often, but I'm not overly convinced. Seems more like an effect than a cause.

The money Kenyans can earn from racing goes a long ways toward sustaining them in the sport, but there's a big leap of faith from that to assuming it is incentive to quit the sport early. Sure, they can retire, but few competitive athletes will hang up the spikes/flats when they feel they can still compete at a high level.

Dan

[Guest]

Must agree with hammer.There was a study done a long time ago that proved that beyond a certain point most people would choose time off rather than work and more money.

[Dan]

What age are we talking about, retirement (65) or competitive athletics (early to mid-20's)??? I'd be very surprised if the studies related to the latter, and even if they do, when exactly is "a long time ago?" Keep in mind that going back more than 10 or 15 years was before the age of true professionalism, and many people left the sport at an earlier age.

Dan

[Hammer]

People in America see sports as a dream and a life long ambition. Africans see it as a way out of poverty. That is why they are motivated to run FAST!!! Most Americans get upset at athletes for not participating in their sport forever (Barry Sanders). If most Americans had the opportunity to work for 2-3 years and then retire, they would take that route. Why pound you body for 5 more years? Just to keep fans happy. I would worry about my families welfare. And that what the Kenyans do. Some of them.

[Dan]

What I hear you saying is no different than what I've read lots of places, mostly unsubstantiated grapevine type stuff. Is this your conjecture, or do you have some direct knowledge of the motivation behind African running?

Besides, there is absolutely no reason why an African runner cannot support his/her family while continuing to run. That money can be sent back home while remaining on the circuit and earning even more, so there's a rather large hole in that logic. Will one extra set of hands make that much difference on the farm?

Africans on average may well see running as a way out of poverty, but I think it's a big mistake to assume our cultural laziness can or should be applied equally to them. Who's to say getting out of poverty is seen as the pinnacle of accomplishment in their eyes and not simply one of many goals?

Dan

[Hammer]

The idea of being rich is truly American (American Dream). And it is my belief that Afreican Runners value spending time with their family more than becoming a wealthy runner in the United States or Europe. So once they have earned enough money to support their family they return home to live with their family.

[Dan]

You're still assuming that escaping poverty is the primary goal of African runners and their sole motivation for competing (i.e. to earn money). Not only do I not believe it to be true, but I think it would be virtually impossible for you to subtantiate. Without proving that aspect, I don't see how the rest of the argument can follow. It seems you are projecting American values onto a very different culture.

Dan

[Conway]

I have to agree with Dan on this one .. What we are discussing here are hte virtues of Capitalism which is most purely an American phenomenon .. Point being with respect to this discussion, is that our values tend to run nearly counter clockwise to the values of those in other countries !!! We put much greater value on the money aspect of running than do others .. Sprinters and shot putters will choose the NFL over track and field because it pays more and pays up front .. Even when they are much better at track and field .. Americans leave track and field becasue they can not make enough money doing it, so they must get a real job .. We forget here in this country that less than 20 years ago athletes worked full time, trained and still were world class and won Olympic medals ...

It is still no different for the Africans .. Their way of life and cost of living is much different than ours here in the States .. Their lives are not much different before, during, and after being world class dominating athletes ... Most run for the fun, the challenge, and moreso the accolades .. To become the next Keino or Walde, or Bikila ... Many leave once they have achieved "their" goals .. The difference is that for them it takes much less time to achieve goals than it takes for us to achieve goals .. Mostly because they already have the things in life that most of work so hard to retire to !!! They are already able to fish a little, play with their kids, and relax most of the day ...

[training2run]

Knowing less than nothing about Kenya and even less than that about its people, I still plan to stick my nose into this discussion - no surprise, right.

I've lived a good part of my life outside on the Ewe Ess of Aye, and I'm here to tell you, not everyone in the world shares the values we seem to cherish in the States.

In central Mexico, where I currently live and train, the average person would always choose being with family or friends over working. Working during holidays, on weekends or overtime is vertially unheard off, even when money is desperately needed.

With this in mind, it would be completely reasonable to me to assume, that a Kenyan runner once he had earned enough to support his family, would leave the sport and return to be with that family - with no interest at all in continuing to earn excess amounts of money.

On another tack, I would also assume that this early retirement, would help prevent serious injuries that would surely come from the horrendous mileage they endure to achieve their short-term goals. Mad Dog Mike www.training2run.com