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Kenyan training methods
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Dan
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Joined: 22 Mar 1999
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Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2002 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If only you knew how far off target you are...

1) I never discredited anyone or made any attempts to do so. You conveniently turned that around 180 degrees. What I said is that you have to earn respect, more so if you choose to remain anonymous. I find it very difficult to believe that that concept can be so hard to grasp.

2) Not everyone agreed with me before you arrived. Look for posts by Donk, Leechboy, and several others. Sorry to burst your bubble.

3) I'm not the one getting defensive about being disagreed with, so the low confidence "insult" would best be directed elsewhere... Hammer, this isn't the first time you have responded to being disagreed with in a similarly heated fashion. I thought I had made it clear that attacks from an anonymous poster are hardly going to cause me fits. If you don't care enough to show your face, I don't care enough to take your words as anything but hot air.

If we want to discuss this further, it should be moved to a new thread so that peole who want to follow Kenyan training methods can actually do so here.

Dan
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Dan
Chief Pontificator
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Joined: 22 Mar 1999
Posts: 9334
Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2002 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's some support for the economic motivational explanation:

http://www.nationalpost.com/search/story.html?f=/stories/20020529/377882.html

However, the article does seem to contradict itself toward the end with something I've wondered about. "Compared to expenses, there's not too much left." How much are the road circuit crew really making outside the top 2-3 individuals? Given that it's too expensive to return home between races and they have to face the North American cost of living to remain here (probably significantly reduced by sharing housing), the common explanation that their race winnings so far exceeds the economic possibilities back home doesn't quite seem to fit.

The top couple of runners each year obviously do well financially, but what about the other 497 Kenyans the article alludes to?

Dan
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Distance_Guru
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Joined: 09 Mar 2002
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Location: Nebraska

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2002 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
Regarding Wetmore, one thing I took from that quote is that his training of Ritzenheim seems like fairly typical collegiate 5k/10k mileage, hardly Lydiard-esque stuff. Keep in mind that Ritz was cranking out 20 milers in high school.
Dan


Lydiard-esque. Funny that you should use that word when discribing Wettmores training methods, since that is the exact adjective his athletes used to discribe his training methods in "Running with the Buffaloes" I've loaned my copy of the book to another runner so I can't quote the page number at the moment but it's in their. And people often confuse Lydiard training with extremely high mileage, which isn't always the case. One of the trade marks to a Lydiard system is running once a day (singles) the vast majority of the time as opposed to doubles or two training sessions a day, this will often result in a lower total mileage amount for a week. The reason for this is that Lydiard (and Wettmore) belive that you get more of a benefit from running for say 60 minutes all at once as opposed to 35mins twice a day. Most of the college coaches that I've been around typically use doubles as opposed to singles to acheive their weekly volume amounts.

As for the eastern block coaches I don't believe that I have read much about their training methods. The only place that I can recall reading authors from eastern block contries was "Middle Distances" which is a book made up of short chapters written by many different authors from many different countries. I didn't really like the book, I find that you get more consistancy from books that are written by one or two authors working together throughout as opposed to a book that is made up of many chapters or articles by many different authors.
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Conway
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2002 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that was a very interesting article ... On th eone hand it supports the claim that their running well is an economic matter for them ...

However .... What I found more interesting is that the reason for that is that it creates a harder training focus for them .. And their own assumption that they are better because they train harder and Westerners just don't train hard enough ..

As far as Eastern Bloc training, you're not going ot find a lot of books ... I find more information on various training methods and other things related to track and field to be found in articles as oposed ot books ... Articles and interviews ...

In this case however if you have access to results from that time period you will see a pattern of competition for their athletes that typically has them competing at shorter distances during the indoor season and early outdoor season and then moving up to their primary distance ...

As for Lydiard I had the pleasure of meeting him some 20 years ago ... His philosophy was pretty simple actually ... Just run .. and run ... and run ... If he were a football coach it would be "go long" ... I think that is where Nike got their "jsut Do It" slogan ... Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2002 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Articles, that explains why I haven't read a lot of their stuff. Generally I perfer to read books on training theory. It helps me get a better grasp of the entire training system a coach uses as opposed to articles that just give you a snap shot or a cliff notes version. Not that there's anything wrong with article quite to the contrary, I just like to understand the entire system which generally is hard to enclude in an article.

If you know of any articles or publications that has material written by any of those eastern block coaches, I'd like to hear what they have to say.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2002 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I just like to understand the entire system which generally is hard to enclude in an article.

Unless it's a really sparse or bad system. Wink

Isn't most of the East German system carefully documented somewhere? I would assume that at least partially covers coaching approach.

Dan
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Conway
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The East German System is documented .. I will have to find out where .. Thre were scores of documents taken from Auschwitz (sp?) ... I have a lot of things in storeage and will have to find some time to go through them ..

However, their results are fairly self explanatory .. when you look through the lists you will see "Geb like" competitors (going all up and down through ranges) both distance runners and sprinters ... They used shorter distances to help build speed for longer distances ... And longer distances to help build strength in the shorter ones .. They believed in stregnth and speed complementing each other ... Not as separate entities opposed ot each other ...
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