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Steve Holman speaks up on behalf of sprinters
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2001 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.runnersworld.com/dailynew/archives/2001/December/011206.html#bell

Holman has always struck me as one of the more intelligent and level headed athletes, which is all the more unfortunate he's had such bad experiences in championship meets and been villified by fans as a result. Sad

Dan
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Conway
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Joined: 25 Aug 2001
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2001 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice article which begs the question - what is the definition of World Class ?? Personally I would say "that which would gain an individual entry into a WC or Oly final" .. "or entry into a Grand Prix I event" .. For the 100 that would be around 10.20 or better ..

With respect to the article (and in support of Holman) not sure there are too many 10.20 or better sprinters running around in the NFL ... As a matter of fact I'd be willing to bet none right now !!! Simply because the training is different .. Maybe a few running in the 10.30s ... Maybe ...

How about these for "World Class" ??

10.20
20.50
45.50
1:47.00
3:36.00

Yes / No ??
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2001 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those seem like reasonable "world class" cutoffs, although the 800 and 1500 times look more like (US) national class. Now, if you were choosing national class times across the board, your distance and sprint times would be quite accurate! Wink

I would basically say world class is anything that can score in the occasional Grand Prix meet.

I don't know what the status is of NFL speedsters currently, but I would guess there are 4-5 such guys at any given time that are capable of being competitive pro sprinters. Certainly not dozens, and probably not more than one or two that are truly world class (guys like Neamiah, Hayes, Bates, Ron Brown, Darrell Green, Willie Gault, etc.). There are 10.2 - 10.3 high schoolers playing college football each year, and at least some of them go pro, so the basic speed is there for a few of them.

Dan
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Justin
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2001 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


You guys are being way too generous. 10.20 is one fast man, but not a world class sprinter. The fields in the top events consist of, on average, 3 or 4 guy with bests under 10.00, another 2 or 3 with bests around 10.10 and 1 or 2 locals. I think you have to run at least 10.10 and perhaps under to be considered world class. To be worthy of a mention as an OG finalist you need to be near or under 10.00.

For example, all these guys broke 10.20 last year. I challenge you to describe any of them as world class:

Morne Nagel
Mickey Grimes
Gerald Williams
Llewellyn Bredwood
Jeffrey Fourth
Pierre Brown
Antoine Boussombo

All good runners for sure, but none would even get an invitation to a GP meet except to fill a lane or for a B race.

I keep record of all performances under 10.20, over 5,000 in total incl w/a. When I started back in the early 1980s sub 10.20 was a rare and impressive thing - perhaps 20 or 30 a year. In 1984 Sam Graddy won an Olympic silver in 10.19. By the late 90s there were 250+ legal sub 10.20 runs per year. The 100th best performance in 2001 was 10.13, and it was a quiet year.

10.20 is nice, but 10.10 is where the action starts nowadays.

Justin
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Conway
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2001 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree with you Justin .. I picked the term "under 10.20" as in most major events you see, as you said, 1 or two guys who make a final with a time of 10.1x (10.19,10.17, etc) .. As that range seems to be where folks are able to squeeze into a final .. Medallists must be capable of sub 10.00 in order to have a shot .. And in reality if you cannot break 10.00 you are just lane filler ..

Regarding Dan's statement about high schoolers running 10.2 or 10.3 and playing football, that would be more like 10.4x or 10.5x ... And once those guys get into serious football (college level) the speed seems to go ... There is much difference between track speed and football speed ... Perfect example would be Nehemiah who in spite of getting paid good money and working out regularly lost quite a bit of his speed between football and his return to track ..
Only a few are fast in both sports and those tend to be power sprinter types ... Guys like Bob Hayes, Cliff Branch, Bo Jackson, and any number of sprinter/football players out of the University of Tennessee - a la Willie Gault, Mike Miller , etc ... Smile
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Dan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2001 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justin, I agree that 10.20 won't create much noise on the elite scene, but as Conway said and I alluded to, it generally is enough to make a final and score in a weak Grand Prix meet. That's not a strong definition of world class, but it has at least a bit of basis in observation...

Of the 7 guys you listed, Grimes is the only one I'm familiar with. And yes, I would say he's right on the verge of being world class, if not already there.

Really though, rather than debate the cutoff point, the real question should be in the actual definition of world class. Is just getting to the big dance enough, or does one need to be in the top 8, the top 4, or the very best in their event? Time cutoffs should then be fairly easy to determine based on that criteria.

Quote:
Regarding Dan's statement about high schoolers running 10.2 or 10.3 and playing football, that would be more like 10.4x or 10.5x ...

I was actually referring to 10.2's auto. We had a guy at OSU (never could get him out for track) who supposedly was the Florida state champ at 10.24, and there were a couple of other guys on the football team with comparable speed. On top of that, OSU wasn't exactly known for great team speed at the time, so I imagine other programs have plenty of guys that could run under 10.5 auto. How much under is an unknown, but that's not really relevant since I agree that very few of them are capable of running under 10.20. Smile

Dan
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