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Fry the Sailor
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this thread just keeps on truckin'
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Indeurr
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do beg to disagree with you, dear friend.

I want to use a "double--spearhead method:"
I do start with stressing two different energy systems:

-1) I run 'for' the base;

-2) and I run for the acceleration speed (10m to 40 yards only with full recovery).

How could it work: those two energy pathways do not overlap!
Eventually, progresivley, I do start practice that causes energy pathways to overlap.

Lert say that my goal is a 5K road race: the final practice would be running 3 x 1 mile at the predicted race pace and runing a lot of 600m intervals and/or repeats!

It does still fall in line with periodization!


My easy guess is:
Maximum weekly distance:
7 x double the Road Race Distance == 70K
5 days a week (one time 72--hour break: full recovery!).
It means everything put together and only for three initial weeks.

I cannot compete over distances greater than 1 mile or so (unless in a forest) before the fall; since, I cannot take heat and humidity too well (it would simply defeat the purpose; it almost did back in Basic/AIT in Ft Bening; the October was splendid: it was cooler! I could breath again!).
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Indeurr
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fry the Sailor wrote:
this thread just keeps on truckin'


There is a reason for that: we are both jerks!
Angelo and I; we are jerks!
He writes too much and I read too quickly!
We are perfect friends! Wink Laughing
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well doing speed work of up to 10 seconds won't interfere with your base work at all. Think of that type of training as supplemental training with your base work. Do hills (normally steep) of up to 8 seconds max each only. The purpose is running strength and only strength, it has nothing to do with helping your energy pathways. When you're training your running strength, do short hills, don't do that junk stride stuff because they don't help as much-there is no challenge in running at your full speed on a flat surface to develop your running strength. Also, forget about that 70K distance stuff you're talking about. You need to get from x amount of miles to y amount of miles within 12 weeks, period. Start with 30 and build up to 60 if you can (maybe less if you can't handle mileage too well). There is never an indicator to how much mileage you need besides your own body. There are milers out there that run just as many miles a week as marathoners do so don't be surprised. It's normal to feel like your breaking down as your building up your mileage but your fall should be so slow that you your body has enough time to recover itself without getting injured.
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can be great!
Thanks!
This is perhaps the best advice that you have given to anyone in these fora (Latin Plural of forum)..
Smile
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see strides making a physical change in your body like making you faster as a result of changing the chemistry. You get some improvement in your technique and they also help with loosening up muscles. However, you develop the most running economy by running easy. Besides the physical adaptions that occur due to easy running such as more mitochondria, increased oxygen efficieny, stronger cardiac muscles, your movement becomes more fluid. I believe that distance runners are judged by their easy pace, not by their mile time...to some extent. For example, if you run a 4:30 mile and your easy pace is 7:55, then that just means you have a lot of speed. It is easy to go from 6:00-sub 5 within 3 months, but being able to have an easy pace of at least sub 6:00 is where the experience of the runner really is. Remember when I said that runners cannot be judged by their mile time to some extent? When you get really close to sub four, that's when runners have "fast/hard" easy paces (oxymoron). However in the earlier stages, a group of 5:30 milers can run with a group of 4:30 milers on an easy run.

Now back to the base work, don't follow that "increase by 10% each week rule". That's just as lame as using the formula 220-age to find your max heart rate. Just think about it for a while. You run 30 miles the first week, then you run 33 the next week, then 36.3 the next week, then 3.63 the third week (getting closer to increasing by 4 mile increments). That is increasing somewhat close to exponentially. If you're way up in the high numbers as your mileage such as 80 for example, you would be running 88 the next week by just following that 10% rule which is suicidal.
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here, you need a core workout: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=486

Do those 15 exercises every Wednesday and Sunday. Start with 10 reps and increase by 5 reps every 3 weeks. It might seem little, but that's a jump from 150-225. The key to doing these exercises is patience and intensity. Your first couple times doing the whole workout may seem a little tough because you need to learn the proper form and technique to feel the area you're hitting while doing an exercise. Go very slow and make sure you feel a burn building up throughout each exercise. If you do that, your abs will feel "damaged"-letting you know you did the whole workout effectively. Don't pay attention to all of that 35 reps=elite stuff, increase by 5 reps every 3 weeks, that's it.
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Indeurr
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, the message above, is a sound advice. I am not stating that I have not worked on my abs, but I have not run in a long time, and, I got a "buddy;" a little one so far.

I am working on getting rid of the "buddy."

I feel well in between 201 and 209 lbs; I do feel splendid in between 196 and 200 lbs; but a couple days ago, i did weight as much as 217 lbs; and today, I did 215 lbs.

A three days ago:
3.5 miles in 31:00; including some 7.0 grade hill for .25 mile while running 7 miles an hour -- cetainly a joke, if compared to the so-called Hoover Damm in JMRC Hohenfels that is at least 30 degrees steep and in between 900m and 1K (0.625 mile) long (we had to run up the very hill about a dozen a year): it takes over 1 minute to drive to the bottom or top of it when keeping a constant speed of 40 K (about 25 miles) an hour; or if compared to the always--mud--covered -- and -- narrow passage going for nearly half--a--mile like a snake up another forested steep hill (out of 200 men wnd women in our company; myself and Mr PFC Smith have never finished the release run up the hill in worse position than sixth, and most of the times, we were in top four -- I did never beat Smith, tough: what helped us? Common sense: many people ended--up knee high in mud or broke their ankles or worse).
Later, in 40 minutes, I did run 4.74 miles.

Today, I did run againI did run twice:

1st: 3.5 plus miles
1st two miles in the Airborne standard of 14:44 (14:50); and later, I did run 1mile in 6:58.
I did some assistted--only military cheanup's and lifts.
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to get slim, run slow and long. Running fast such as doing tempos, intervals, etc. only improves your fitness in using carbohydrates. You're pretty fit for that weight, I doubt many people with that weight can even run near your speed. Calories are calories and it depends on how you burn them using what type of energy. Biologically, the only way to use fat for energy is to exercise at a very low intensity. You need to start running a little bit longer, 4 miles+. Build it up every week, this is kind of like building a base, except that the intensity is much lower than the intensity you use to train your aerobic endurance. By slow running, I mean anything from 9:00 mile pace+ for you.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do never run slower than ... 7 miles an hour or 8:34 minutes a mile.
I have run over last three days:
Wednesday: total: over 6 miles (I started making the Aireborne standard for 2 miles while 220 lbs heavy -- 2 lbs, tough, in pre--hydration fluids)
Thursday: over 6 miles
Friday: 2.2 plus miles in WeeQuaHic Park in Newark, NJ in 19:55 (this was very close to 9 minutes a mile, tough: an exception from the above--mentioned rule. My form was very good.).
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, it doesn't matter how much you weigh. Although impossible, you can even weigh 400 lbs and look skinny. But if you really have some fat showing and want to get slim, running fast won't do it. You've been running for over a year I bet and even though it was somewhat inconsistent, you still ran enough. You should've been at 170 or 180. There is something called HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) that bodybuilders do to cut fat but that's so they don't also lose their muscle mass. Now in your case, run slower, much much slower. If you were to do some ultramarathon training, you would still reach the same thing I'm talking about because you would be running very slow. I saw a video on a Navy SEAL that used to weigh 300 lbs+ and he actually looked like a chunk of bacon. He was having problems with his metatarsals (foot bones) due to the weight. He started to run to also raise money for some group (I forgot) and over 6 months he looked 1/3 of his size from before. He is an ultramarathoner and runs races such as 110 miles in Death Valley, CA. His marathon PB is well under 3 hours. Endurance will make you slim, there is no doubt about it. From what you've been saying ever since I joined these forums, I've noticed that you barely increased your mileage. Just focus on increasing that mileage only for the next 6 months. Stay away from intervals and tempos. Build up to 70 or 80 miles. There are a bunch of old distance freaks out there in their 50s and 60s who decided to start running with the goal of running a sub 3 hour marathon. You say you've been in the army, then you should have no trouble at all. I mean it's pretty obvious because you don't run close to half of 80 miles so you;ve got a lot of work to do. Oh and don't worry about performance just yet, after 6 months of pure endurance, all you need is about 2 extra months of hard running (5K/10K training) and that will polish you up to your limit. The good thing about base work or general endurance is that you can do it for as long as you want. You can't really become a better runner without it, and you can't really do a lot of high quality running without it either. It takes time though, expect to run everyday soon and have a long run of almost 2 hours.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That could do--yes. Wink
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now hold on, don't make most of your runs the same amount of miles. You first need to get used to a certain amount of miles that you can run oftenly. For example, I can handle running 13 milers almost everyday, but I can only handle running 22 miles for 1 day. Since you've been mostly running 4 milers and 5 milers, then use 5 as your regular number. It's better to run 7,6,6,5 instead of 7,5,7,7 if you're not used to running 7 milers. Plan your mileage build-up to 80 miles over those 6 months. There are all sorts of ways to do it. You can increase your mileage every week and then cut back for a week and then add even more miles than before, or you can add on miles for 3 weeks and then keep 1 week the same so that you can adjust to the mileage, etc.

Here is how the improvement works when you build a base: your easy pace improves very slightly by about 20-30 seconds. Other than that, you're just getting used to running an additional mile everytime. For example, you can't hold your current easy pace for a marathon, but through constantly building up your mileage and being able to run an additional mile everytime, you can eventually get to the point where you can run a marathon at that pace. I'm not saying that you'll be running a marathon, but that's just how it works when you build a base. When you start doing tempos and cruise intervals, your easy pace will decrease drastically, especially after you spent 6 months building up your mileage. When you start running at 7:30 pace, you can actually feel that you're getting closer to your lactic threshold. You can't get better at that unless you run in that state. Running slower at 8:30 pace or running much faster by doing speed work will only slightly improve your lactic threshold. This applies to everyother energy pathway. There is always a specific pace for each energy pathway that you want to get better at. The reason that you still get better very slightly at an energy pathway even though you're running much slower or faster than it is because it's still running but not at the full benefits for improving that certain pathway.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey -- what do you know, change of gears my friend! I want to improve all the records established by this man that have anything to do with running!
Yeah!
It shall give you an opportunity to prove yourself as a caoch!
Idea
I need a new motivation!
This man
http://www.recordholders.org/en/records/doyle.html
does motivate me! Very Happy
He is like your attempt of combining being a body builder with the middle and long distance running!

With full "Battle Rattle" (plus standard US Army's hand gun "9" for the tunnel/cave infiltration; in spite of that we practiced, this part of our OPFOR duties did never happen) and back packs and one man (or three men) carrying the radio, Mr. (2007) SPC Hagel , Mr. (2007) PFC Provost, another SPC (we made him cry by forcing the tempo), and yours truely, ex--Infnatryman SPC Kolakowski did outrace our Action Platoon over rolling hills on the edge of the Bavarian Alps in Hohenfels finishing a 4 mile--march/run over rocky--dirt roads of the 'Box' within 40 minutes.

Looking back at that event gives me hope that ex-member of the elite of the JMRC OPFOR HHC Hohenfels can do it!
Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
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Angelo Z
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a couple of things that you need to understand. First of all, you need time. With bodybuilding too, you'll be spending a lot more time working out as opposed to just being a runner. The second thing you need to understand is that he has a lifetime of training behind him unlike you. Sure you've been in the army and such, but his training can't even be compared to the training you get in the army. From what I know, I think you have to at least be able to run a 7:30 mile if you're in the army. Whatever the time is exactly, it's a very very low standard compared to the world of running.

You know what I think is best for you? To become a marathoner. It just seems age friendly and it really requires a lot of hard work if you want that type of challenge. Long distance running is very age friendly indeed. I have seen a bunch of documentaries on regular adult-aged people who one day were either burned and injured very badly in a life-threatning accident or just decided to become humanitarians while at the same time placing decent times and achieving personal running goals. Believe me, I have thought about this from the very start but you insisted on 5K running for the most part. Road races are enjoyable. At one point you're with a lot of people and at another point your all by yourself trying to get past the wall and confronting your limits. You can also tour and run in other countries when you're in vacation. You can just take your family to Japan or somewhere, and run in Osaka for example.

This will help motivate you on marathoning: http://run-down.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3039

It truly outlines the world of a runner and hands down, it's my favorite movie of all-time. Forget about trying to compete with elite runners. This movie is about a normal kid with autism which is 100x worse than I thought it was. My point is that you don't necessarily need to look up to some elite athlete and use that for motivation (at least in your case). That's why you should watch a movie like this and not a movie about Prefontaine. It's reality, your chances are gone with trying to become world class. You need to have training on your back since childhood like me and retire from being a professional around the age of 30. That's why I can say that Guerrouj was my inspiration and that's why I can also shoot for records. You on the otherhand won't be able to come anywhere close to that guy Paddy Doyle or Gebrselassie but you still have your personal goals. Confronting your limits, trying to break 3 hours, that's the whole basis I'm talking about right here.

You're only about 17 months older than Guerrouj and he already finished his whole running career. Marathoning will also help you stay fit for many years to come and not only to mention the prestige that comes with it too. You can have the right to tell people that you're a marathoner (after you run one) and even your relatives can come and support you on marathons. I say it's a perfect oppurtunity, it's very rare for people your age to be marathoners. You can be unique, you know what I mean? You won't be the only one but I still say that's unique among several thousand others in the WORLD.
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