Run-Down Forums

[mjsbossman]

Hey Dan, tonight I planned on running 7 miles, with 3-4 tempo paced miles in the middle. I did a 2 mile warmup, which was a mile down hill and a mile back up, then I streched which I usually don't do until after I run. I planned on running each mile in about 6:15, I doubted myself that I could even keep that pace. Well I went out and ran a 2:50 800, and when I saw my watch I was in shock. I decided to stick with that pace and ended up running an 11:05 2 mile, then I did a 3 mile warmdown. So do you think this run was good for me? I was indeed very tired when I finished, but it felt good to run fast. Do you know what my tempo pace should be if my 2 mile time is 10:45 and my 5K time is 18:00?

I did some thinking and decided I want to do two hard workouts a week. I plan on doing a tempo run kinda like I just did, but next time I will slow down a bit and do 3-5 miles at that pace. Then the next hard day will be 1600 or 800 repeats. tell me if this is a bad way to run:

Monday-7 mile, 2 mile tempo in the middle
Tuesday-9 miles easy paced
Wednesday-7 miles easy paced
Thursday-9 miles easy paced
Friday-2 mile warmup,4x1600 repeats, mile cooldown
Saturday-11 miles easy

This all adds up0 to 50 miles, but there is quality in there, unlike my last two weeks where my fastest pace was 7 minutes a mile. Also, does that sound better to make my longer days slow, and my shorter days faster? I used to run my long days fast and my short days easy. Also Dan, would you know which days I should do strides and which days I should do drills and jump rope after my run? Should I do them both on the same day, or do strides one day and drills the next day. Should strides be on the fast days, or long distance days?

[Dan]

Wow, that's an excellent run! Great job. That's the type of training I believe in for off-season work. No question you're ready for a big break through; just gradually build toward it. I'm not sure what you mean by what should your tempo pace be. Do you mean for the workout you just did? There really isn't any basis for comparison, as you ran that tempo run at nearly your PR pace. The best thing you can do is get rid of any such expectations (they can easily become limitations) and just see what you're capable of.

The intended training plan looks good, although I would probably make Wednesday or Thursday a 3-5 mile day every other week for recovery and optionally pick up a light day on those Sundays.

If you can, do a few strides and drills after every workout. No need to go all out on them at this stage, just look at them as maintenance.

Dan

[mjsbossman]

Excellent Dan, sounds good to me. Next week I will probably plan the days out better so I get the optimum amount of rest before the hard workouts. I don't want to overtrain, I think I overtrained in XC, the team ran fast on distance runs the day after 10x800m workouts. I must recover.

PS-11:05 was a good time for me, and it wasn't fast as I could go, even thoug hI was tired, my 10:45(1.85 mile course) PR came in the middle of XC when I was in my best shape, and this 2 miles is a full two miles, not 3200, and his has a slight slope on every 800, so hopefully in track I can break 10:30. All I need to do is do some tempo runs at 6 to 6:15 pace and mile repeats, and Im confident I can improve.

[mjsbossman]

Oh my goodness Dan, you won't believe what happened this time. Tonight my plan was 4x1 mile in about 5:30-5:40, with 3 minutes between miles, and a 3 mile cooldown. Well I go out on the first mile and run a 2:25 half mile! At that point I was amazed, so I slowed down and came in the first mile at 5:07, which stil was fast. The next mile was 5:16, then 5:17, then 5:30. I could have gone faster on the last one, but it will still the same intensity as the other 3. Is this some kind of fluke or something? My PR in track last season for the mile was 5:16 and I can already beat it with ease. And my 800 time was 2:19. Yea!!!

[Dan]

Very impressive. Was that on a measured course? That's an awfully big improvement, to say the least. How'd you feel afterward?

Dan

[mjsbossman]

Yea, it is at my house, around the block is exactly half a mile, not 800m, half a full mile, plus it has a little hill. After the last mile I was very tired. But very happy, knowing that I am getting fast. These next three days are only doing to be slow, distance days. I think the key for me is by doing hard/easy days.

I think I might do good because I ran it at night, when it is cool, aruond 50 degrees. And yesterday I ran 9 slow miles, I seem to run great after long days. In XC my 10:45 came the day after a hard run up a 4 mile slope. hey I was talking to some kid and he said not to do mile repeats in the base phase! Im sorry, but how can it hurt. I am not running like all out, plus these miles will boost my max vO2 greatly.

[Dan]

Hmm, exactly a half mile? You must live in a very geometric neighborhood!

Evening is the optimal time for running, due to several physiological factors. Ask the kid to explain why he thinks mile repeats during a base phase is bad. My guess is he won't be able to give you a good answer, because he's just regurgitating what he's heard elsewhere...

Dan

[mjsbossman]

Yea, I wouldn't really take advice from this kid. I mean, he is pretty young, I think just out of high school..and my times are better than his, which doesn't neccesarily mean he doesn't know, but I think I have gained knowledge to. I read in a great book called "the competitive runner's handbook" by Bob Glover that mile repeats can be introduced in the base phase. Yea, I am lucky it is half a mile. See, what the block looks like is a Giant D from overhead. Actually there is road that forms a D from a blimp view. And that kid said you have to run slow for the whole base phase! Thats what I did over the summer and it took me a month into the season to get fast, but I was too far behind to catch up.

[Dan]

As you learned, running slow is a great way to learn how to run slow.

Dan

[mjsbossman]

Dan, I want to lift weights, but what is the better time to lift, before or after running? I actually would only do calf raises for my legs since I can't go to the gym, would calf raises be better than nothing? Also, is it alright just do do calf raises with my bodyweight, or is it needed to add weight? I have a machine at home for calf raises. Also, I am going to lift for my upper body with shoulder presses, pushups, bicep curls, tricep extensions, around 15 reps. I want my arms to be efficient, I remember in some races my biceps would burn bad at the end! Oh yea, how many pushups can you do? I thought I remember you saying something over 100!

[Dan]

Definitely do your lower body (and probably abs) lifting after running. I found it works best to do upper body lifting before running, assuming the lifting and running are required by your schedule to be close together. Upper body lifting after running just seems too un-energized to be productive, probably due to smaller muscle groups being fatigued.

Calf raises are surely better than nothing. Actually, they're one of the better exercises. I see no real value in extra weight for them. Just do one leg at a time, and your body weight will more than counter not using extra weight on two legs.

It's been several years since I did push ups on a regular basis. That was practically all I could do for a strech when I had a hip injury, and I think the highest I got up to was 127 straight. I had never gone above 50 before that injury...

Dan

[mjsbossman]

Oh Dan, I wanted to know, if you ran 40, then 45, 50, and 55 miles, would you go up to 60 the next week or maybe take an easy week of 40 miles? This is the situation I am in. I don't want to cut back because I want to be so fast!

[Dan]

I know it's tough to not keep adding on, but I would very much recommend cutting back for a week after a 3-4 week build up period. You'll return even stronger the following week.

Dan